Braemar Gun Range Carry Course

[LarryP]

Anyone taken the permit to carry course at the Braemar gun range in Edina?? It's a 4 hour course with Mr Dave Arnold.
. Looking for feedback

[06flhxi]

I took my class there from Dave 2 years ago. Great class and convienant, shooting qualification in the same building.

[saltybirdman]

My buddy and I took that class 2 years ago also, and I would recommend it. It was informative, professional but laid back, and I felt I got my money's worth.

[GoBerserk]

I took my PTC class there, from Dave (Bold Enterprises). The course was adequate. I didn't have any experience with handguns, but I expected to learn more about safe handling and range protocol. I shot decently, but learned little. After I got my first pistol, I watched the videos on Bill's website, and joined Metro Gun Club. I've been shooting weekly since then. It's probably time now to get some instruction so I can continue to develop skills. I felt the PTC class was overly focused on protecting yourself legally. Knowing what I do now, I would pay 50% more to take a class that offered more practical instruction.

[cobb]

I felt the PTC class was overly focused on protecting yourself legally. Knowing what I do now, I would pay 50% more to take a class that offered more practical instruction.

I guess I am curious as to your comment and why you think this. I always thought a permit to carry class would be about the aspects of carry, which would deal with the laws and the mechanics of carrying. I would think a class with more practical instruction, I assume you mean more handling of or instruction in the use of a firearm would be a handgun course like the NRA's Basic Handgun or one one of the courses that several instructors do that focus on shooting principle.

I have a few that want to take my permit to carry course and have zero knowledge of firearms, then are not happy when I inform them that the class does not teach basic handgun instruction and they need to get some familiarization with a handgun first. They think it should cover the basic on loading, sight picture, trigger control, etc because it is a permit to carry course. I disagree, NRA FIRST Steps is an introduction course for those few, a permit to carry course is dealing with carry and more advanced techniques is just that.

Many instructors can present a course starting with the basics and end with advanced shooting techniques, covering everything in between. But 16 to 20 hours would be an overload for most and not a price that many will pay.

So what is the compromise?

[GunClasses.Net]

Dave's an excellent instructor and does a top notch job in those four hours. While four hours might be enough to cover the basics, most people are going to want (need) more than that. Dave makes it clear that the class "is only the beginning", and I think he still offers training beyond those four hours. Advanced Pistol http://gunclasses.net/advanced-pistol/ is a series of about 25 hours of instruction in four sessions, going deeper into topics that may have been discussed briefly in a permit class, and covering topics that may not have.

Obviously, EVERYTHING can't even be touched on in a single class. Our Permit class covers, on at least a basic level, the following fundamentals:

Likeliness and impact of threats
Preparing for, Responding to, and Recovering from, a deadly threat,
The importance of training,
Practicing the draw,
The benefits of dry firing,
Minnesota Law,
Attitude and Mindset,
Practical carry considerations,
Further developing a knowledge bank,
The Permit Application Process

Advanced training, that we'll hope to start up again in February, now includes:

Calling for help (touched on in our permit class)
Cover vs. concealment, and shooting from cover
Defending against a knife attack
Firearms and your vehicle; defense against carjacking, etc.
First aid for gunshot wounds (touched on in our permit class)
Handling multiple attackers
Handling the aftermath: legal, psychological, family concerns, etc (touched on in our permit class)
Issuing commands to the attacker (touched on in our permit class)
On-street role play scenarios
Proper shooting technique and posture for defensive shooting (touched on in our permit class)
Recovering from Pistol Malfunctions (touched on in our permit class)
Reloads, and Reloads with one hand
Shooting from unorthodox positions: kneeling, sitting, knocked down on the ground, around corners
Shooting while moving
Shooting with only the weak hand
Un-holstering and getting the first shot on target (touched on in our permit class)
Using a flashlight tactically (touched on in our permit class)
Ways of death: stairways, hallways, and doorways … and slicing the pie (touched on in our permit class)
Weapon retention
What to do when police arrive (touched on in our permit class)
When you cannot shoot; and what do you do when you cannot shoot? (touched on in our permit class)

Again, that list is about 25 hours of advanced training and you see how many topics we go deeper into and how many we add that weren't even discussed in the single permit class. I wonder if people can sometimes have the idea that they're going to walk into a class knowing zip about pistols, and walk out with ninja-like skills. A good permit class by a good instructor will impress on people the need for continuing education, and offer that. People like Don Larson and others come to mind for that. There are lots of great advanced instructors out there and you don't have to go out of state to find them.