Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

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Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Baz on Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:57 am

For those of you in Scott County, make yourselves available on Tuesday, April 7th from 11:00am-1:00pm. The county board will decide whether or not to approve the 2nd Amendment resolution language at this workshop, and we need a strong showing.

The workshop will take place in the board room at the Scott County Gov't Center (200 4th St W, Shakopee, MN 55379).

Also, if any of you have a facebook account, I would recommend joining the group "Scott County Defenders" to remain up-to-date on 2nd Amendment issues within the county.

-Baz
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby yukonjasper on Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:03 am

Is it a declaration of 2nd Amendment Sanctuary language? I'm in Eagan, but curious about how these movements get started.
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:21 am

I am in hennepin but also curious. If the state did impose a draconian law how would the county law be legal? Don't the preemption laws supersede this and work both ways? So in essence it is just a larger group stating they will not follow the law? So really no different than me declaring my house a gun sanctuary location just with a mass of folks behind it so less chance of the law being enforced?

Wouldn't it be better to defeat the actual law and the people who are enacting it?
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Ghost on Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:13 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:I am in hennepin but also curious. If the state did impose a draconian law how would the county law be legal? Don't the preemption laws supersede this and work both ways? So in essence it is just a larger group stating they will not follow the law? So really no different than me declaring my house a gun sanctuary location just with a mass of folks behind it so less chance of the law being enforced?

Wouldn't it be better to defeat the actual law and the people who are enacting it?

If the Constitution said “shall not be infringed” and states passed infringement, would it be enforced?
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:39 pm

Ghost wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:I am in hennepin but also curious. If the state did impose a draconian law how would the county law be legal? Don't the preemption laws supersede this and work both ways? So in essence it is just a larger group stating they will not follow the law? So really no different than me declaring my house a gun sanctuary location just with a mass of folks behind it so less chance of the law being enforced?

Wouldn't it be better to defeat the actual law and the people who are enacting it?

If the Constitution said “shall not be infringed” and states passed infringement, would it be enforced?

I think that precedent has been pretty well established. ;)
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby xd ED on Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:55 am

Holland&Holland wrote:I am in hennepin but also curious. If the state did impose a draconian law how would the county law be legal? Don't the preemption laws supersede this and work both ways? So in essence it is just a larger group stating they will not follow the law? So really no different than me declaring my house a gun sanctuary location just with a mass of folks behind it so less chance of the law being enforced?

Wouldn't it be better to defeat the actual law and the people who are enacting it?


As much as it is encouraging that there are the numbers to create these sanctuary counties, the notion that one should need the protections of a sanctuary - a defined area to experience the protections of the Constitution is not a good one. We are not criminals hiding out in a church.
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Baz on Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:52 am

Though mostly a message of "get bent, Saint Paul", there is language within the resolution that states county resources/funds won't be used in the execution of unconstitutional laws.

It's been made clear to the commissioners that the above line-item is a non-negotiable inclusion, and it's pretty much the only portion that has real teeth as far as combating the Tories at the capitol.

I'm not sure where things stand in surrounding counties, but I'd recommend reaching out to Rob or Bryan at MNGOC if you're looking to kick things off in your locale. If we can start getting movement in counties that border Hennepin and Ramsey, a pretty solid message will be made to the legislature.

-Baz
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:56 am

Baz wrote:Though mostly a message of "get bent, Saint Paul", there is language within the resolution that states county resources/funds won't be used in the execution of unconstitutional laws.

It's been made clear to the commissioners that the above line-item is a non-negotiable inclusion, and it's pretty much the only portion that has real teeth as far as combating the Tories at the capitol.

I'm not sure where things stand in surrounding counties, but I'd recommend reaching out to Rob or Bryan at MNGOC if you're looking to kick things off in your locale. If we can start getting movement in counties that border Hennepin and Ramsey, a pretty solid message will be made to the legislature.

-Baz

Unconstitutional as determined by who? In theory they are already doing this.
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Baz on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:51 am

Per the resolution's language, any "mandate, law, policy, order, or any other directive which infringes on the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms".

Yes, any existing law/policy is already an infringement. Yes, these "dedications" shouldn't be needed given the Bill of Rights and the acknowledgment of them in the Constitution.

The way I see it, this move is a formal way of telling state policymakers who hate individual liberty to piss off. Having that same support from local levels of "authority" isn't a bad thing in my eyes, and if anything else, the passage or refusal of the resolution at least lets you know where the county and the sheriff stand when future elections are held.

Will these moves actually amount to something tangible when the cards are on the table? Who knows. Regardless, it's certainly better than standing still in the current climate and has already seemed to fire people up. I see that as a good thing.

-Baz
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby yukonjasper on Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:42 pm

Interested in how you got that all started. Who originated the movement?
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:18 pm

Baz wrote:Per the resolution's language, any "mandate, law, policy, order, or any other directive which infringes on the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms".

Yes, any existing law/policy is already an infringement. Yes, these "dedications" shouldn't be needed given the Bill of Rights and the acknowledgment of them in the Constitution.

The way I see it, this move is a formal way of telling state policymakers who hate individual liberty to piss off. Having that same support from local levels of "authority" isn't a bad thing in my eyes, and if anything else, the passage or refusal of the resolution at least lets you know where the county and the sheriff stand when future elections are held.

Will these moves actually amount to something tangible when the cards are on the table? Who knows. Regardless, it's certainly better than standing still in the current climate and has already seemed to fire people up. I see that as a good thing.

-Baz


So honestly curious. If this passes does that mean that in Scott county you would no longer be required to have a permit issued by the sheriff to carry?
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Baz on Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:51 am

yukonjasper wrote:Interested in how you got that all started. Who originated the movement?


With the news being shared in Roseau and other counties, a dude here in Scott County took it upon himself to get things rolling. He created a Facebook page (Scott County Defenders) to start spreading the word, and I believe he got in contact with MNGOC to get some resolution language drafted. From there, members of the group started emailing/calling the county commissioners to garner any interest in moving forward with the resolution.

A "meetup" was scheduled to discuss this issue a couple weeks ago where the commissioners and sheriff were invited. A couple commissioners actually showed up (along with the county attorney) and we had a mostly healthy (save for a few lunatics) discussion surrounding 2A dedications and the like. The commissioners mentioned they had heard of rumblings from other counties at a previous workshop, but if not for the emails/calls they received, they'd be mostly left in the wind as far as these county dedications are concerned.

Luckily, the reception of the commissioners was good and a majority are 2A advocates. The sheriff has played a safe hand regarding his stance (unlike Sheriff Brott in Sherburne County), so no real indication yet, although anecdotal feedback seems positive surrounding him and this issue. We'll see.

So yeah, very grassroots-esque without much formal fanfare. Pro-liberty interest has seemingly continued to grow and real, interactive connections with county leadership have been established. And it only took a month or so to make that happen.

-Baz
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby aprilian on Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:43 pm

Baz wrote:Per the resolution's language, any "mandate, law, policy, order, or any other directive which infringes on the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms".

Yes, any existing law/policy is already an infringement. Yes, these "dedications" shouldn't be needed given the Bill of Rights and the acknowledgment of them in the Constitution.

-Baz


I'm not trying to stir things up, but wouldn't that language say that the county LEOs would not have a problem with me owning a fully automatic machine gun without paperwork?
Unregistered silencers?
Would the County spend funds or deploy law enforcement to attempt to stop ATF enforcing federal firearm laws?

I just don't believe this has any teeth or real value for us. It feels like back in JHS when our parents said "No" and we got all our friends to rally to our side to protest how unjust it was.....
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:01 pm

aprilian wrote:
Baz wrote:Per the resolution's language, any "mandate, law, policy, order, or any other directive which infringes on the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms".

Yes, any existing law/policy is already an infringement. Yes, these "dedications" shouldn't be needed given the Bill of Rights and the acknowledgment of them in the Constitution.

-Baz


I'm not trying to stir things up, but wouldn't that language say that the county LEOs would not have a problem with me owning a fully automatic machine gun without paperwork?
Unregistered silencers?
Would the County spend funds or deploy law enforcement to attempt to stop ATF enforcing federal firearm laws?

I just don't believe this has any teeth or real value for us. It feels like back in JHS when our parents said "No" and we got all our friends to rally to our side to protest how unjust it was.....


This sounds pretty accurate
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Re: Scott County BOC 2nd Amendment Resolution Workshop

Postby Baz on Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:54 am

aprilian wrote:
Baz wrote:Per the resolution's language, any "mandate, law, policy, order, or any other directive which infringes on the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms".

Yes, any existing law/policy is already an infringement. Yes, these "dedications" shouldn't be needed given the Bill of Rights and the acknowledgment of them in the Constitution.

-Baz


I'm not trying to stir things up, but wouldn't that language say that the county LEOs would not have a problem with me owning a fully automatic machine gun without paperwork?
Unregistered silencers?
Would the County spend funds or deploy law enforcement to attempt to stop ATF enforcing federal firearm laws?

I just don't believe this has any teeth or real value for us. It feels like back in JHS when our parents said "No" and we got all our friends to rally to our side to protest how unjust it was.....



In theory, yes. But, that's probably why the county won't adopt the language as written. The county attorney and a commissioner or two have already voiced concerns over that specific line item, especially since the county has been sued by the state AG in the past and lost handily.

Again, this is more symbolic than anything. The biggest thing is sending a message to St. Paul that a well-populated county that borders the core of the metro contains citizens and levels of authority that are pro-civil liberty. Will the Tories actually care enough to a point that will alter their thinking or actions? As Virginia showed, unlikely.

If not for anything else, conversations are starting, people are becoming informed, and sheriffs and commissioners are being put on the spot. With elections on the horizon, that's pretty important. The state association of sheriffs has already come out in opposition of red flags a few days ago. If I recall correctly, there were a couple sheriffs who shared testimony in favor of those bills just last year. Firing up pro-2A sheriffs to overwhelm their statist peers seems to have started.

Am I expecting more words on sheets of paper to somehow erase all unconstitutional laws in actuality? No. I'm not an idiot. What I am expecting is movements like these beginning to inform people who would otherwise remain apathetic. Anything done to promote pro-liberty votes in upcoming elections is an endeavor worth pursuing. There's value in that.

-Baz
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