HF 1467- The most important update to MN gun law since MCPPA

[Perch_44]

any update on the senate bill?

[12smile]

http://www.senate.mn/media/media_video_ ... ?type=live

Senator-ess Barb Goodwin is a Nincompoop.

Watching hearings live Friday eve...This woman is a ninny...listen to her testimony...it's sad....she's being mocked by Sen Dave Thompson R-Lakeville now.

Folks.... watching the hearings is educational...I watched house hearing from State website and it was good too.

They're "Discussing" now....good stuff and free

Update: Senator Ron Latz dfl st louis pk...this guy is an ass...

...head way up his ass.. he thinks Wisconsin grants permits to carry !!!!!!! shocking...Watching these hearings gives some insight into how profoundly stupid some of our politicans are....

7:10 Bill just ammended : if a mn resident you cant carry w/ out of state permit...that is if your are a MN resident.
7:57 Ron Latz is on again...MORON. He thinks government always acts in the best interest of the people...(like in the USSR I assume)

[Rem700]

The Defense of Dwelling and Person Act of 2011 is headed for the full House and Senate.

The bill passed the Senate Judiciary and Public Safety Committee tonight on an 8-3 vote.

[engnerdan]

The Defense of Dwelling and Person Act of 2011 is headed for the full House and Senate.

The bill passed the Senate Judiciary and Public Safety Committee tonight on an 8-3 vote.

So I am an idiot when it comes to politics, what does this mean? How close is it to becoming law? How long before it is all done if everything goes well?

-Dan

[tt3]

Once it's heard on both floors and voted passed, it goes back to a joint committee to rectify differences between the House and Senate version, then off to the governor's desk. (That's from foggy memory of schoolhouse rock.)

[Grayskies]

Once it's heard on both floors and voted passed, it goes back to a joint committee to rectify differences between the House and Senate version, then off to the governor's desk. (That's from foggy memory of schoolhouse rock.)

Then both the house and senate must repass the modified bill before Dayton vetos it.

[Andrew Rothman]

Way to be positive.

[mattxd]

we shouldn't assume that Dayton will automatically veto, he needs a few examples of him reaching out on conservative issues. This will allow him and the media to portray him as the reasonable person negotiating with the radical legislature.

He likes his guns just listen to him run his mouth about is pair of loaded 357s 2:20
even when he is blathering on about cop killer bullets 7:40 he still follows up with a strongish statement supporting 2a 9:20

If we want this to pass we need credible and active people in the DFL showing him the upside of signing this bill. I know there are a lot of political hacks on this forum and for the most part things lean libertarian to conservative there are a few of us that have the contacts inside the DFL to be heard. Please push those contacts, it doesn't take much stop in to see them at the capital, run into them at different events, call the staffers you know, call and write. Based on conversations with the elected people I know they really do look to these contacts to gauge what's on the public's mind.

[Grayskies]

Way to be positive.

I got to watch dayton being questioned by the media (channel 2's live coverage of our state goverment). After what he said I will be very surprised if this gets past him.

Just because he owns a gun or two means nothing, I believe dianne feinstein and chuck schumer both have carry permits, and the prievious shall issue law in wisconsin failed, in part, due to a hunter's orginsation lobbying against it.

i would love this bill to pass, even as, currently amended... I think I am just being realistic.

[PHATSPEED7x]

I would love to see this bill pass too. The Mayor of Hibbing MN was assaulted Friday night. Him, and a friend were attacked by three men. I don't believe either one was a PTC holder. Even if they were the attack happened so fast I don't think they could of done anything even if they had PTC. And then they would of still had to "try" and retreat.

IMO that is ********. I was kinda blunt about it on one of my gun forums it got me a permanent ban... Oh well. Haters are gonna hate.

[12smile]

I don't mean to hi-jack this political thread but I envision scenarios where one step back is "retreat"

The new law means I get to decide what 'retreat' means rather than Jim Backstrom.

[Hammer99...]

Based solely on my own opinion. I have a feeling that the senate didn't want to hear the bill because they felt it had no chance on Dayton's desk. If I had to guess the amendments had to be added or the bill would not have been heard by the senate. So hopefully its enough and Dayton will either sign it or won't sign it under protest and allow it to be law. And correct me if I'm wrong but If both house and senate bills pass there respective floors that a committee has to agree on a version to send to Dayton. So you never know. If law enforcements objections can me minimized it could happen.

[Perch_44]

is there anything scheduled yet, as to when it will be voted on in the house and senate?

[Chandler CCW]

Ladies and Gentlemen....this article was written by the POLICE CHIEF of CHASKA, MN.
Found in no other than the Star Tribune from yesterday.
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/othe ... 02764.html

Email him and let him know what you think: sknight@chaskamn(dot)com

Minnesota lawmakers will soon have an opportunity to signal whether they support the public's interests or a narrow special interest. We should watch closely as they cast their votes on HF1467, a bill only the gun lobby could love.

While proponents portray the bill's primary provision as an expansion of the right to self-defense, law enforcement overwhelmingly opposes it as a threat to officer and public safety. In too many instances, it is a license to kill. Good lord, could you be any more dramatic?

Americans resonate to the clarion call of "the Castle Doctrine," the long-held belief stemming from British common law that a person's home is his or her castle, and that people are justified in taking whatever measures might be necessary in protecting hearth and family.

No one argues against this established right.

But Minnesota law already allows for the use of deadly force, without an obligation to retreat, in order to prevent danger within the home. Where would you suggest I retreat to, had I been obliged to?

While there are those who disingenuously suggest that current Minnesota law does not ensure this right, no one has ever been prosecuted under Minnesota statute for legitimate self-defense. The irony.....no one's been prosecuted for not commiting a crime.

The proposed legislation extends the Castle Doctrine beyond the home to the outer reaches of a person's property, and, far more dangerously, takes it out to the public domain -- the sidewalk and beyond -- where shooting to kill becomes justified if the shooter "reasonably" feels threatened. Remember foks, it's not what YOU think is reasonable...it's what a Prosecutor can get 12 JURORS to think is REASONABLE. This is just more sensationalism.

The Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association, the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association, the Minnesota Sheriffs Association and the County Attorneys' Association all oppose the bill.

Testimony outlined how it would have a dangerous effect on law enforcement's ability to protect the public and to prosecute criminal behavior.

If the proposed bill becomes law, for example, there would be nothing to prevent one gang member from shooting another and claiming immunity because of having felt threatened by a rival. Darwinism?

This bill encourages escalating conflict. It sanctions shooting when there is a threat of substantial harm, allows the shooter to continue shooting until the danger is "eliminated," and frees the shooter of all civil or criminal liability for innocent bystanders who get shot. It does? I failed to see that in the legislation.

As Dakota County Attorney James Backstrom said in his testimony in opposition to the bill: "It creates a subjective standard of the reasonableness of a person's actions in using deadly force, rather than the objective standard in current law.

In other words, the issue becomes what is in the mind of the person using deadly force rather than how a reasonable person would have reacted under the same circumstances."

Who will gainsay the shooter who claims reasonable threat if the only other witness to the shooting is now dead? A jury if need be?

Backstrom quotes a former president of the National District Attorneys' Association who said that these "shoot first/ask questions later" laws being pushed by the gun lobby in one state after another "basically give citizens more rights to use deadly force than we give police officers, and with less review."

And, it should be said, without the training a police officer receives.

Other provisions of the proposed omnibus gun bill currently making its way through the Legislature, while somewhat less extreme than the "shoot first" component, also weaken law enforcement's ability to keep firearms out of the wrong hands.

• The bill would increase the period between renewals for permits-to-purchase from one year to five, thereby increasing the possibility that a permit holder who commits a crime will continue to pose a public danger. God....somebody get this guy a fresh change of panties.

• It would give reciprocity to permit-to-carry holders from other states, even if those other states had considerably lower background check or training requirements. You mean ALL citizens have the right to defend themselves??? Oh NO!!!

• It would make it more difficult for law enforcement to remove firearms from homes where domestic violence is occurring. Totally fabricated, emotional, bed-wetting, liberal, titty-twisting bullsh*t.
It will be sad if lawmakers' votes are determined by a misreading of their constituents' views and a misplaced homage to the most extreme fringe of the NRA.

Yes, there are a lot of gun owners in Minnesota, but most of them want the same reasonable safeguards for their families as do those who don't own guns.

And the gun lobby's power is no greater than lawmakers' willingness to give in to their pressure. Once lawmakers refuse to be bullied, the gun lobby will lose its influence.

[BuckKlier]

Don't get pulled over in Chaska, this guy is an IDOIT!!!