Heather has been heard from again

[DeanC]

I learned in class that a permit holder is 20 to 50 TIMES (not percent... TIMES) less likely to get a DWI, commit domestic abuse or commit a violent crime than the average person.

I'm not sure how accurate those numbers are, but they are useful to throw around.

And in Minnesota, a police officer is 9 times more likely to have is POST credentials revoked then a PTC holder is to get their permit revoked.

Ouch.

Number of MN police officers: 10,584 (as of February 22, 2011)
Number of carry permit holders: 85,997 (as of August 21, 2011)

[tman]

I learned in class that a permit holder is 20 to 50 TIMES (not percent... TIMES) less likely to get a DWI, commit domestic abuse or commit a violent crime than the average person.

I'm not sure how accurate those numbers are, but they are useful to throw around.

And in Minnesota, a police officer is 9 times more likely to have is POST credentials revoked then a PTC holder is to get their permit revoked.

Ouch.

Number of MN police officers: 10,584 (as of February 22, 2011)
Number of carry permit holders: 85,997 (as of August 21, 2011)

What's the correlation?

[DeanC]

What's the correlation?

None that I can see. Just checking to see if either population group is statistically significantly bigger than the other.

[jgalt]

What's the correlation?

None that I can see. Just checking to see if either population group is statistically significantly bigger than the other.

It would be more interesting to find out the actual number from one or both groups who have had their POST / permits revoked... If only 1 permit has been revoked, then 9 times that many POST revocations isn't really all that interesting. If 100 permits have been revoked, that would mean 900 POST revocations, which would be interesting.

The percentages are only given meaning once the actual numbers involved are revealed...

[DeanC]

The percentages are only given meaning once the actual numbers involved are revealed...

I imagine the the time span would come into play too. POST cert has been around a lot longer than the MPPA.

[RobD]

Plblark ran the numbers, they were for 2010 I believe...

3 permits revoked, 30ish cops POST credentials revoked.

I don't have the post numbers on hand, but the Permits revoked
2009 - 1
2008 - 4
2007 - 0
2006 - 3
2005 - 1

[DeanC]

3 permits revoked, 30ish cops POST credentials revoked.

Ouch

[RobD]

Found the numbers...

Minnesota POST certified officers:
2007-2008
(11,700 officers - page 7; revocations start on page 54)
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/newpost/PDFs ... report.pdf

2009-2010
(10,560 officers, page 4; revocations start on page 51)
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/newpost/PDFs ... Report.pdf

23 certifications revoked /(11700+10560)/2/4=0.052% for 2007-2010


2006: 37,000 permits held, 3 revoked, .0081%
2007: 46,000 permits held, 0 revoked, 0%
2008: 53,000 permits held, 4 revoked, .0075%
2009: 63,000 permits held, 1 revoked. .0016%

Four-year average: .004%, or one in every 25,189

.052%/.0004%= 13 times more likely.

[tman]

Found the numbers...

Minnesota POST certified officers:
2007-2008
(11,700 officers - page 7; revocations start on page 54)
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/newpost/PDFs ... report.pdf

2009-2010
(10,560 officers, page 4; revocations start on page 51)
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/newpost/PDFs ... Report.pdf

23 certifications revoked /(11700+10560)/2/4=0.052% for 2007-2010



2006: 37,000 permits held, 3 revoked, .0081%
2007: 46,000 permits held, 0 revoked, 0%
2008: 53,000 permits held, 4 revoked, .0075%
2009: 63,000 permits held, 1 revoked. .0016%

Four-year average: .004%, or one in every 25,189

.052%/.0004%= 13 times more likely.

Check your links. They didn't lead me to the PDF's.

Based on the reasons for revocations, when cops mess up, they do it big.

[1911fan]

Tman.

I believe the numbers were used only to say that Heathers insistance that only LEO's could be trusted, in fact, the permitted individual is caught 13 times less often than LEO's breaching the standards of carry.

There are trustworty LEO's out there, far more than crooked ones, but like the permit holder who gets busted doing something stupid, a dirty cop or a LEO who makes a mistake is always gonna make the news.

[Heffay]

There are trustworty LEO's out there, far more than crooked ones

Source?

[tman]

There are trustworty LEO's out there, far more than crooked ones

Source?

Oh, snap!

[1911fan]

There are trustworty LEO's out there, far more than crooked ones

Source?

Oh, snap!

ten thousand who kept their post certs, vs 30 who didn't



Just keep your boots polished, it takes a better picture when they gleam in the light as you stand on the throat of freedom...............

be safe, have a good day

[justaguy]

Found the numbers...

Minnesota POST certified officers:
2007-2008
(11,700 officers - page 7; revocations start on page 54)
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/newpost/PDFs ... report.pdf

2009-2010
(10,560 officers, page 4; revocations start on page 51)
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/newpost/PDFs ... Report.pdf

23 certifications revoked /(11700+10560)/2/4=0.052% for 2007-2010


2006: 37,000 permits held, 3 revoked, .0081%
2007: 46,000 permits held, 0 revoked, 0%
2008: 53,000 permits held, 4 revoked, .0075%
2009: 63,000 permits held, 1 revoked. .0016%

Four-year average: .004%, or one in every 25,189

.052%/.0004%= 13 times more likely.

This pretty much proves it.

[Scott Notaeh]

What is a POST cert?