Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

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Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby bstrawse on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:44 pm

Blog Post at the Volokh Conspiracy, a law blog, about this case: http://www.volokh.com/2012/08/30/unusua ... ment-case/

This quote is from the court decision in Embody v. Ward. The full case can be viewed here (PDF warning).

Tennessee law allows individuals with gun permits to carry handguns in public places “owned or operated by the state” such as “public park[s]” and “natural area[s].” Tenn. Code § 39-17-1311(b)(1)(H). The statute defines a “handgun” as “any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches” that is “designed, made or adapted” to be fired with one hand. Id. § 39-11-106(a)(16).

Armed with knowledge of this law and one thing more — a Draco AK-47 pistol — Leonard Embody went to Radnor Lake State Natural Area, a state park near Nashville, Tennessee, on a Sunday afternoon. Dressed in camouflage, he slung the gun with its eleven-and-a-half-inch barrel across his chest along with a fully loaded, thirtyround clip attached to it.

Embody anticipated his appearance at the park would attract attention—he carried an audio-recording device with him—and it did. One passer-by spontaneously held up his hands when he encountered Embody. Two park visitors reported to a park ranger that they were “very concerned” about Embody and the AK-47. R.22-3 at 5. And an elderly couple reported to a ranger that a man was in the park with an “assault rifle.” Id. at 6.

Two more predictable things happened. A park ranger disarmed and detained Embody to determine whether the AK-47 was a legitimate pistol under Tennessee law, releasing him only after determining it was. And Embody sued the park ranger, claiming he had violated his Second, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights.

For his troubles, Embody has done something rare: He has taken a position on the Second and Fourth Amendment that unites the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and the Second Amendment Foundation. Both organizations think that the park ranger permissibly disarmed and detained Leonard Embody that day, notwithstanding his rights to possess the gun. So do we.
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby Squib Joe on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:19 pm

"thirtyround clip"
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby xd9 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:33 pm

Edited to remove my silly comment.
Last edited by xd9 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby bstrawse on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:15 pm

The comments are well worth a read - as tman notes on another forum - the subject of the suit has posted numerous times in the comments.

Note that the plaintiff represented himself pro se - and put forward some rather novice and "interesting" legal theories for his case. This is why smart test cases with a well thought out legal strategy are important....
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby White Horseradish on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:31 pm

Aw, it's that idiot...

He's a guy that goes out of his way looking for trouble with cops. If it wasn't open carry, it would be something else.
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby EJSG19 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:48 pm

Messed with the bull im shorts and flip flops (read "dumbass wasnt prepared") and got the horns.

Get off my side...
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby LarryP on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:19 pm

I'm glad the police stopped him & made sure he was legal. What a idiot. Sometimes I wonder if these people are really Brady Bunch supporters trying to cause trouble.
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby JKalsbeck1961 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:26 pm

What an idiot. He went looking for trouble. Like others have said - GET OFF MY SIDE!! :evil:
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby texasprowler on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:24 pm

"To make sure he was legal"

Had it occurred in 30 other states, there would have been no permit required for which to verify his right. The officer would have needed some other excuse to stop.

I am constantly puzzled why pro-gun advocates are tolerant and complacent about so many requirements imposed before the gov will 'allow' one to exercise a right.

A car is a deadly weapon, the police don't respond to "a man with a car" report.

And the orange tip? It just might have prevented a shoot fist, ask questions later, though I agree the next kid with a toy now could be at greater risk.
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby tman on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:32 pm

texasprowler wrote:"
the police don't respond to "a man with a car" report.


Heh. I think I've done that. :lol:


I don't know if it was mentioned where you'd have seen it, but MN, at least, has "stop and ID" built into our carry law.
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby texasprowler on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:54 pm

Yes, stop and ID. And I fail to understand why gun folks are ok with that, as it doesn't seem to be necessary in those other thirty states. It is likely to be useful tool from the police side, but it just looks too much like "prove your innocence "
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby ferric021 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:51 pm

texasprowler wrote:"To make sure he was legal"
I am constantly puzzled why pro-gun advocates are tolerant and complacent about so many requirements imposed before the gov will 'allow' one to exercise a right.

A car is a deadly weapon, the police don't respond to "a man with a car" report.


Not to derail the topic, but in the same frame of mind, who here thinks people should be required to show I.D. before the government will 'allow' one to exercise their right to vote? I think it's interesting that the difference between the left and the right side is simply which 'rights' should require an ID.
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby rtk on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:11 pm

ferric021 wrote:
texasprowler wrote:"To make sure he was legal"
I am constantly puzzled why pro-gun advocates are tolerant and complacent about so many requirements imposed before the gov will 'allow' one to exercise a right.

A car is a deadly weapon, the police don't respond to "a man with a car" report.


Not to derail the topic, but in the same frame of mind, who here thinks people should be required to show I.D. before the government will 'allow' one to exercise their right to vote? I think it's interesting that the difference between the left and the right side is simply which 'rights' should require an ID.


You need to show an ID for everything else, why not to vote.

Now if the asked for you to show your IQ for things....well we might be in some serious trouble. ;)
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby ferric021 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:13 pm

rtk wrote:You need to show an ID for everything else, why not to vote.


I guess my point was: Why not to carry a firearm as well?
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Re: Inviting a Stop and Frisk through Open Carry

Postby jshuberg on Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:00 pm

Voting is a privilege of citizenship.
The ability to defend oneself with arms is a right.

Don't confuse the two.
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