What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby goalie on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:38 pm

goaliemn wrote:you do know many people get married outside of churches as well...

It annoys me how people seem so upset over granting my 9 year relationship the same protections that someone who just met on the street could get in moments, at a ceremony officiated by an elvis impersonator in Vegas..

99% of the arguments I've seen is "my religion says its wrong" and if I want to get married, or say anything about it I'm "shoving it in your face" yet its ok to shove your beliefs in my face.. Marriage is a governmental contract that grants 2 people certain rights. It doesn't have to have anything to do with a church.




Whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA!!!!

Don't be getting all factual and reasonable on us. This is MGT you know.....
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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby Heffay on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:54 pm

I got married in a bar! It was awesome!

goalie was there. He can attest.
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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby goalie on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:57 pm

Heffay wrote:I got married in a bar! It was awesome!

goalie was there. He can attest.


Second best wedding food I've ever had, and it really shouldn't be second, but the first was a tiny wedding with the reception at a top-5 restaurant on Key West where guests got to eat off the menu. Apples-oranges.

The sea bass freaking ROCKED at your wedding. Gary and I had thirds IIRC.
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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby Shipyard on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:03 pm

goalie wrote:
Heffay wrote:I got married in a bar! It was awesome!

goalie was there. He can attest.


Second best wedding food I've ever had, and it really shouldn't be second, but the first was a tiny wedding with the reception at a top-5 restaurant on Key West where guests got to eat off the menu. Apples-oranges.

The sea bass freaking ROCKED at your wedding. Gary and I had thirds IIRC.


we had a total of 198 people at our wedding - the bar was wide open with 3 kegs and full to the top shelf, good wine list and champagne for a grand total of 9 hours (most people were half lit BEFORE the ceremony... including myself ;) )

when the bill showed up we were charged for 1,497 alcoholic drinks. roughly 7.6 drinks for every man, woman and child that attended.

THEN we hit the VIP suite for the REAL drunk fest :D if i recall over 5 cases of beer and 3 bottles of jameson went missing up there too...

i don't even want to begin to tell you what that friggin cost. worth every penny though.

party on wayne.


party on garth.

after all, marriage is for the children :lol:

(how's THAT awesomeness for post number 4000?? :P )
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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby goalie on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:23 pm

Shipyard wrote:
goalie wrote:
Heffay wrote:I got married in a bar! It was awesome!

goalie was there. He can attest.


Second best wedding food I've ever had, and it really shouldn't be second, but the first was a tiny wedding with the reception at a top-5 restaurant on Key West where guests got to eat off the menu. Apples-oranges.

The sea bass freaking ROCKED at your wedding. Gary and I had thirds IIRC.


we had a total of 198 people at our wedding - the bar was wide open with 3 kegs and full to the top shelf, good wine list and champagne for a grand total of 9 hours (most people were half lit BEFORE the ceremony... including myself ;) )

when the bill showed up we were charged for 1,497 alcoholic drinks. roughly 7.6 drinks for every man, woman and child that attended.

THEN we hit the VIP suite for the REAL drunk fest :D if i recall over 5 cases of beer and 3 bottles of jameson went missing up there too...

i don't even want to begin to tell you what that friggin cost. worth every penny though.

party on wayne.


party on garth.

after all, marriage is for the children :lol:

(how's THAT awesomeness for post number 4000?? :P )


I got married on the Pier House's private beach on Key West. One Duval Street. At the beginning of Fantasy Fest.

The Pier House's TOPLESS private beach.

Justa say'n.....
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Re: Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby texasprowler on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:33 pm

goaliemn wrote:you do know many people get married outside of churches as well...

Marriage is a governmental contract that grants 2 people certain rights. It doesn't have to have anything to do with a church.



I always thought marriage was a 'rite', not a 'right'.
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Re: Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby goalie on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:30 am

texasprowler wrote:
goaliemn wrote:you do know many people get married outside of churches as well...

Marriage is a governmental contract that grants 2 people certain rights. It doesn't have to have anything to do with a church.



I always thought marriage was a 'rite', not a 'right'.


He didn't say it was either one. He said it was:

a governmental contract that grants 2 people certain rights


That is completely different from stating that being married is a right.
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Re: Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby grousemaster on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:34 am

goalie wrote:
texasprowler wrote:
goaliemn wrote:you do know many people get married outside of churches as well...

Marriage is a governmental contract that grants 2 people certain rights. It doesn't have to have anything to do with a church.



I always thought marriage was a 'rite', not a 'right'.


He didn't say it was either one. He said it was:

a governmental contract that grants 2 people certain rights


That is completely different from stating that being married is a right.


Why limit it to two?
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Re: Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby goalie on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:34 am

grousemaster wrote:Why limit it to two?


The government shouldn't. It should be none of their damn business. But he was referring to what it currently IS, not talking about a hypothetical.
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Re: Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby Heffay on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:37 am

goalie wrote:
grousemaster wrote:Why limit it to two?


The government shouldn't. It should be none of their damn business. But he was referring to what it currently IS, not talking about a hypothetical.


AMG SLIPERY SLOOP!!
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Re: Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby grousemaster on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:46 am

Heffay wrote:
goalie wrote:
grousemaster wrote:Why limit it to two?


The government shouldn't. It should be none of their damn business. But he was referring to what it currently IS, not talking about a hypothetical.


AMG SLIPERY SLOOP!!



Isn't it currently a contract between a man and a woman?
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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby yukonjasper on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:50 am

Tman eluded to it earlier. The point is that if you and your chosen religious denomination choose not to marry people of the same sex, they should have the right to do so. In the same way a religion or the government wants to perform a wedding for same sex couples it should be able to do so. The problem comes, as with many other areas covered by Politically Correct inclusionary legislation like the ADA etc., in the area of unintended consequences. The original idea seems infinitly wise and needed to protect the rights of people who need special protection. The unintended consequence comes when a same sex couple decides they want to be married in a Catholic Church, the Church refuses - which they should have the right to do - how far off is the lawsuit to force the Church to marry the couple. The non-religious group in this country doesn't understand the distinction, its bigoted, close minded and hateful. They feel that way obviously since they don't see the need to go to church or live by any specific church teachings or moral code set out by the church - probably some left the church because they were living in a way contrary to what was being taught or believed in things that was at odds with the Church, so they reject all of the specific teachings and become - Spritual or believe in God but not all that other man made stuff they preach on Sunday. So the trampling comes at the expense of those who choose to live by the teachings of the church - the Church becomes the minority opinion that gets bowled over in the court of Political Correctness. The fact that the Church going population sees Marriage as a Sacramental Union - with vows taken in the eyed of God according to the rules of that church, seems silly to someone who doesn't believe in God. The freedom of religion was guaranteed specifically because the founding fathers saw the danger of a secular society turning to an amoral relativism that would end with anarchy. Like it or not, this country was based on Christian Ideals and a stong biblical unpinning - as were most of the countries at the time. The proponents of the Marriage amendment understand the dynamic and wanted to head this off at the past. Look at Canada and wha has happened since they passed their Gay Rights legislation. It has taken over areas tha I'm sure the Citizens never expected it to.

As far as raising children and having families goes, there are many studies that show the best environment to raise children is in a man/woman marriage. That goes for single parent families, gay families, extended family raising children etc. Sorry to say it and I know there are many anecdotal stories that people can throw out there to the contrary, but the research has been done. I'll look for the studies and post them here if I get time to look. Not saying that one man and one woman raising a child automatically makes it better - maybe those two are horrible parents, just saying that the imperical evidence overwhelming shows that mental, social and emotional development for children born and raised in a "traditional" home environment score better - consistently. not my intention to know anyone out there, just saying that statistically it has been proven. I don't think it takes myuc convining when you look at the current state of society to understand that whatever we have been doing for the last 40 years hasn't been working so well.
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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 am

yukonjasper wrote:Tman eluded to it earlier. The point is that if you and your chosen religious denomination choose not to marry people of the same sex, they should have the right to do so. In the same way a religion or the government wants to perform a wedding for same sex couples it should be able to do so. The problem comes, as with many other areas covered by Politically Correct inclusionary legislation like the ADA etc., in the area of unintended consequences. The original idea seems infinitly wise and needed to protect the rights of people who need special protection. The unintended consequence comes when a same sex couple decides they want to be married in a Catholic Church, the Church refuses - which they should have the right to do - how far off is the lawsuit to force the Church to marry the couple. The non-religious group in this country doesn't understand the distinction, its bigoted, close minded and hateful. They feel that way obviously since they don't see the need to go to church or live by any specific church teachings or moral code set out by the church - probably some left the church because they were living in a way contrary to what was being taught or believed in things that was at odds with the Church, so they reject all of the specific teachings and become - Spritual or believe in God but not all that other man made stuff they preach on Sunday. So the trampling comes at the expense of those who choose to live by the teachings of the church - the Church becomes the minority opinion that gets bowled over in the court of Political Correctness. The fact that the Church going population sees Marriage as a Sacramental Union - with vows taken in the eyed of God according to the rules of that church, seems silly to someone who doesn't believe in God. The freedom of religion was guaranteed specifically because the founding fathers saw the danger of a secular society turning to an amoral relativism that would end with anarchy. Like it or not, this country was based on Christian Ideals and a stong biblical unpinning - as were most of the countries at the time. The proponents of the Marriage amendment understand the dynamic and wanted to head this off at the past. Look at Canada and wha has happened since they passed their Gay Rights legislation. It has taken over areas tha I'm sure the Citizens never expected it to.



Accept that the fear you point out has not occured prior. Using your example, there are many rules and requirements in the Catholic Church that must be met even for a man and woman to marry and I know of no lawsuites that have been filed and one by anyone that have forced the Catholic Church to perform a wedding that they did not sanction, do you?
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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby Heffay on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:11 am

Holland&Holland wrote:Accept that the fear you point out has not occured prior. Using your example, there are many rules and requirements in the Catholic Church that must be met even for a man and woman to marry and I know of no lawsuites that have been filed and one by anyone that have forced the Catholic Church to perform a wedding that they did not sanction, do you?


This.

I'm pretty sure this is a red herring. Find me some Lutherans who successfully sued the Catholic church to get married in their venue, and I'll start worrying about gay couples suing for the same reason.
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Re: What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

Postby grousemaster on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:13 am

Heffay wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:Accept that the fear you point out has not occured prior. Using your example, there are many rules and requirements in the Catholic Church that must be met even for a man and woman to marry and I know of no lawsuites that have been filed and one by anyone that have forced the Catholic Church to perform a wedding that they did not sanction, do you?


This.

I'm pretty sure this is a red herring. Find me some Lutherans who successfully sued the Catholic church to get married in their venue, and I'll start worrying about gay couples suing for the same reason.


Why would you be worried about it, Hef?
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