What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

[goaliemn]

Try here: http://www.redstatereport.com/2012/01/g ... n-churchs/

This case is not forcing a church to marry someone.. its a church that has a public pavilion that they rent out to the public. They broke public accommodation laws by not renting it out to a lesbian couple. This wasn't the sanctuary, this wasn't even the church grounds.

The photographer case could happen in MN. Its illegal to discriminate in MN based on sexual orientation. Do you see lawsuits flying all over? no. Again, its a small portion of people that may be trying to cause problems.

[whiteox]

Once marriage is not between one man and one woman,through the courts or legislation, the state can force churches to provide the venue or service to parties the state “approves” of.

Try here: http://www.redstatereport.com/2012/01/g ... n-churchs/

Try again. It wasnt a church. It was a camp association that was affiliated with the Methodist church. The association had filed for a Green Acres tax exemption for the property in question. The tax exemption required them to keep the facility open to EVERYBODY without discriminating. There had apparently been weddings from other denominations, secular weddings, etc. at the facility with no objection by the association. It wasn't about the association's religious beliefs. It was that they thought gays were ishy, and when it appeared they might have to let gays take them up on their promise to the state of New Jersey that they would keep the facility open to everyone, that the pavilion in question suddenly became a part of their marriage ministry that they couldn't possible let gays get married in.

The association later gave up the green acres tax exemption and got a religious exemption that apparently now allows them to exclude 'the gays'.

This decision had nothing to do with religious liberty and everything to do with an association not doing their homework and taking a tax exemption that required them to allow the entire public into the facility that it administered.

Here's the actual decision, you know, without all the hatemongering spin.

http://www.aclu-nj.org/files/8713/2639/9826/CRT_6145-09_Bernstein_ID.pdf

[infidel]

It may be hyperbole. Here is another: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/propose ... -weddings/

Shall I start citing European examples? You can say it won't happen, it does not change the fact it has.

[Heffay]

It may be hyperbole. Here is another: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/propose ... -weddings/

Shall I start citing European examples? You can say it won't happen, it does not change the fact it has.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. It's not for churches, but rather areas they have open to the general public. No minister would be required to give the rites. Much like the earlier example you gave which was also proven to be completely wrong.

Then again, you also think businesses open to the general public should be able to refuse service to someone just because they are Jewish or black, so I guess you should be "proud" you're being consistent at least.

[goalie]

It may be hyperbole. Here is another: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/propose ... -weddings/

Shall I start citing European examples? You can say it won't happen, it does not change the fact it has.

I don't know how you even make the leap from A to B with the examples posted here.

Church's get a tax-exempt status. If they want to own PUBLIC-USE space, they need to follow the same rules as anyone else. Their PRIVATE CHURCH GROUNDS are not included in the scenarios your examples give, nor are actual ordained church personnel. They can't legally have it both ways, which is what both of the examples in this thread were all about.

[Thunder71]

Judging by this thread they'll be too tied up with gays and religion to worry about gun laws, I'm OK with that.

[infidel]

It may be hyperbole. Here is another: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/propose ... -weddings/

Shall I start citing European examples? You can say it won't happen, it does not change the fact it has.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. It's not for churches, but rather areas they have open to the general public. No minister would be required to give the rites. Much like the earlier example you gave which was also proven to be completely wrong.

Then again, you also think businesses open to the general public should be able to refuse service to someone just because they are Jewish or black, so I guess you should be "proud" you're being consistent at least.

I have cited numerous examples where the state has forced churches to do provide the venue OR services against their will. You don't believe it can happen, even though I provided evidence it has. Maybe you should try some remedial reading in this thread, starting with your "jumping to conclusions" pic.

Your last statement is out of context and distorting. I never mentioned Jewish or Black in the CRA thread. I did say; if one only sold to Klingons, one would have a limited market.

[Heffay]

Your last statement is out of context and distorting. I never mentioned Jewish or Black in the CRA thread. I did say; if one only sold to Klingons, one would have a limited market.

Nice use of code words. Noone will be able to understand what you really mean that way!

[infidel]

Your last statement is out of context and distorting. I never mentioned Jewish or Black in the CRA thread. I did say; if one only sold to Klingons, one would have a limited market.

Nice use of code words. Noone will be able to understand what you really mean that way!

Heffay, try these code words: You distort, lie, and take things out of context. You imply racism or homophobia when you can't win the argument.

Here is the entire quote from the CRA thread:

The only "rules" should be those naturally created by a free market where competition is all that is needed as an incentive for innovation, low prices, and quality lest they go out of business.

You don't need force.

I saw your post and it bears repeating. If I choose to sell only to Klingon's, I have a limited market. The pink pony does not believe in the invisible hand, he prefers government control.

[goalie]

I have cited numerous examples where the state has forced churches to do provide the venue OR services against their will. You don't believe it can happen, even though I provided evidence it has.

No, you have not. No CHURCH has been forced. Church OWNED property has, but it was PUBLIC USE property, which falls under the same rules as any other business property.

Now, go find an actual CHURCH that was forced to require it's clergy to marry someone they didn't want to, in the actual house of worship, then come on back and post the link.

Until then, well, keep hat'n on those "klingons" bro.....

[Holland&Holland]

I have cited numerous examples where the state has forced churches to do provide the venue OR services against their will. You don't believe it can happen, even though I provided evidence it has.

No, you have not. No CHURCH has been forced. Church OWNED property has, but it was PUBLIC USE property, which falls under the same rules as any other business property.

Now, go find an actual CHURCH that was forced to require it's clergy to marry someone they didn't want to, in the actual house of worship, then come on back and post the link.

Until then, well, keep hat'n on those "klingons" bro.....

Klingons arn't that bad, a bit tempromental but not as bad as the Romulins

[infidel]

I have cited numerous examples where the state has forced churches to do provide the venue OR services against their will. You don't believe it can happen, even though I provided evidence it has.

No, you have not. No CHURCH has been forced. Church OWNED property has, but it was PUBLIC USE property, which falls under the same rules as any other business property.

Now, go find an actual CHURCH that was forced to require it's clergy to marry someone they didn't want to, in the actual house of worship, then come on back and post the link.

Until then, well, keep hat'n on those "klingons" bro.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... hurch.html

[infidel]

BTW Goalie, you are taking the Klingon quote out of context too.

[goalie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... hurch.html

Um, how is that relevant to the United States? Should we be worried that our gun laws are instantly going to reflect theirs as well????? I mean, I give you an A for effort, but an F on content....again.

[infidel]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... hurch.html

Um, how is that relevant to the United States? Should we be worried that our gun laws are instantly going to reflect theirs as well????? I mean, I give you an A for effort, but an F on content....again.

Dude you were pawned. Deal with it. See above. You continue to lie and say it won't happen or cant happen. I would give you a shovel, but your are doing just fine digging.