What do we need to fear with the new MN Legislature

[grousemaster]

Oh. I thought his position was fairly clear. No homo rights.

Clear would be answering a simple yes or no question. Like I said, I have many friends who's personal beliefs did not stop them from voting against the amendment.

You two just feed off each other, don't ya?

[Heffay]

If you don't want others views imposed upon you best not to do the same to others... In the case of government I'm simply not comfortable when they get outside of their basic charter which most social/wedge issues happen to be.

I may not believe in abortion personally but I am pro-choice because I don't think it's the government's job to make that decision for everyone in the country... I really don't care who gets married these days, I know plenty of divorced heterosexuals married in churches who've done far more harm to the institution than the concept of gay marrige ever will. I know two gay couples who are raising children (one adopted, one via invetro-fertilization pregnancy) in safe and loving homes who would put a number of hetero parents to shame (one partner stays home full time, the other works - they live within their means and enjoy a high quality of life).

Lets get to the crux of the issue... the gay marrige ammendment isn't about 'saving' anything, it's about bigotry. People have the right to be bigots, however they don't have the right to legislate that viewpoint on the rest of society or limit the freedoms of others. Freedom means being able to do what you want as long as it doesn't harm others and allowing others to do the same, even if it offends you.

[plblark]

If you don't want others views imposed upon you best not to do the same to others... In the case of government I'm simply not comfortable when they get outside of their basic charter which most social/wedge issues happen to be.
[...]
People have the right to be bigots, however they don't have the right to legislate that viewpoint on the rest of society or limit the freedoms of others. Freedom means being able to do what you want as long as it doesn't harm others and allowing others to do the same, even if it offends you.

AMEN!

[grousemaster]

I will never accept your definition of "marriage".

You don't see that as the least bit ironic, do you?

Thanks for clearing that up though. At least I'll never have to mistake you for a conservative again, since one of those would be against the government having anything at all to do with marriage, let alone "recognizing" some and not others......

Since when is that a conservative stance? Aren't you mixing up libertarians and conservatives?

[plblark]

small government conservatives are about as rare as unicorns. Everyone claims to love them, some dream of being one, but they're not often seen outside of fantasy.

[yuppiejr]

Since when is that a conservative stance? Aren't you mixing up libertarians and conservatives?

I don't know if "conservative" can be considered a political affiliation per-se, it's sort of like being religiously agnostic instead of aligning with a specific belief system (Christian/Buddist/etc....). Where Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Communists, etc... have a specific platform of beliefs (though it may vary somewhat between local/national/international chapters, etc..), conservatism is a bretty broad descriptor of political/social beliefs without a specific platform that I'm aware of...

[goalie]

small government conservatives are about as rare as unicorns. Everyone claims to love them, some dream of being one, but they're not often seen outside of fantasy.

So, so true.

Oh, and another **golf clap** for yuppiejr's post.

[plblark]

yuppie ... Good point. I confused an old car pool person who exclaimed: You're Republican! with: "I'm more conservative than republican ... "You could actually hear the brain lock that generated

[White Horseradish]

yuppie ... Good point. I confused an old car pool person who exclaimed: You're Republican! with: "I'm more conservative than republican ... "You could actually hear the brain lock that generated

You oughta be careful. hard braking like that might produce skidmarks.


Some years ago there was a gag making the rounds that was called "The bill of no rights". Article 2 reads as follows:

You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone — not just you! You may leave the room, change the channel, or express a different opinion, but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.

[infidel]

I voted to keep marriage the way it is, not to distort it, hyphenate it or change the definition of it.

1. Marriage in any other form than it is now, would not affect your marriage. It would affect your pocketbook and society. Currently, marriage is defined as ONE man and ONE woman. You change that, you open floodgates.

2. The longest living, most productive, stable, and healthiest citizens do not live alternative lifestyles. The government does not directly punish or penalize homosexual unions or behavior. It does endorse creating a stable society with tax incentives for heterosexual unions that MAY create little taxpayers. No one is preventing anyone from obtaining a marriage tax credit. EVERYONE currently can marry someone of the opposite sex.

3. I can guarantee that once the status quo is changed, some gay couple will sue for the right to get married in the Basilica.

4. If you think #3 cannot happen, I refer again to Utah statehood and the Obamacare contraceptive mandate. Your separation of church and state does not hold water.

5. Tax exempt status of churches has been brought up a few times. Unlike unions or most other non profits, churches cannot make political donations and keep their exempt status. Let's say the NAACP is open to the public, should the KKK be allowed to use their facilities just because of non-profit status?

[Heffay]

Again, I do not belong to any church. I was ex-communicated from two religions over twenty years ago.

I want to hear more about this story.

[SparkyJeff]

I voted to keep marriage the way it is, not to distort it, hyphenate it or change the definition of it.

So did the majority of people in the state, right?

[goalie]

I voted to keep marriage the way it is, not to distort it, hyphenate it or change the definition of it.

1. Marriage in any other form than it is now, would not affect your marriage. It would affect your pocketbook and society. Currently, marriage is defined as ONE man and ONE woman. You change that, you open floodgates.

Yup, just like those pesky floodgates opened when they allowed blacks to marry whites, right?

2. The longest living, most productive, stable, and healthiest citizens do not live alternative lifestyles. The government does not directly punish or penalize homosexual unions or behavior. It does endorse creating a stable society with tax incentives for heterosexual unions that MAY create little taxpayers. No one is preventing anyone from obtaining a marriage tax credit. EVERYONE currently can marry someone of the opposite sex.

The government's job isn't to offer incentives to create, as you put it, "little taxpayers." Again, thanks for ensuring that nobody is every going to mistake you for a conservative.

3. I can guarantee that once the status quo is changed, some gay couple will sue for the right to get married in the Basilica.

Yup, and they will lose. Just like the jewish couple did. And the lutheran one.

4. If you think #3 cannot happen, I refer again to Utah statehood and the Obamacare contraceptive mandate. Your separation of church and state does not hold water.

See above. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!

5. Tax exempt status of churches has been brought up a few times. Unlike unions or most other non profits, churches cannot make political donations and keep their exempt status. Let's say the NAACP is open to the public, should the KKK be allowed to use their facilities just because of non-profit status?

What does that have to do with the fact that church's are what they are, and nobody has been forced in the US to marry people in an actual church that said church didn't approve of marrying?

[goalie]

I voted to keep marriage the way it is, not to distort it, hyphenate it or change the definition of it.

So did the majority of people in the state, right?

No. The bigot amendment lost.

[Shipyard]

2. The longest living, most productive, stable, and healthiest citizens do not live alternative lifestyles. ?

insert reference to excrement of large beef prodcuing mammals...

your claim seems to state that only 50 yr company suit workin low cholesterol silver fox octegenarians are worth a **** and are the only ones that contribute anything worthwhile.

off the top of my **** head....

jimmi hendrix
kurt cobain
andy warhol
janis joplin
jackson pollock
keith moon
bruce lee
otis redding
buddy holly

on the openly gay side:
keith herring
perry ellis
liberace
freddy mercury

all led "non-traditional" or what you would label as a "subversive" lifestyle, all dies young and all gave the world some of the greatest treasures and art and BEAUTY it has ever seen.

keith's artwork ont eh berlin wall. queen has some of the greatest rock songs of all time. do you even need to say anything about jimmy? if you've ever listened to a beatles record do me a favor - take all fo your albums recorded since 1962 and burn them on your front lawn. do it, for the purity of your sanctimonious black heart.

the world would be a duller,sadder and more evil place had all of the above spent their life being so friggin "moral" and pious and oh so wonderful in your hate filled eyes....

what a sad little world you must live in..... if you've never screamed along to Queen's "Fat Bottom Girls" in a dive bar while dancing with stout Wisconsis farm girls i'm not sure if you can truly die happy

now if you'll excuse me, i'm out of here. all this back door bigotry and hatemongering is giving me a hankerin' for my favorite seat in front of the thong showers in my favorite gay bar downtown. i guerantee i'm going to have more fun than all ya'll tonight