The core of the problem of everything

[MXGreg]

Just remember, there is a difference between "climate" and "weather". The media likes to talk about local weather events as "climate change" but this is all hype. From the "Climate Types for Kids":

Weather and climate are different. Weather is a short term description of the air in an area measured by temperature, precipitation, humidity, wind, and other factors. Climate is usually defined as the weather conditions in an area over a long period of time. Climate is determined by 1 or more of the 5 causes of climate. There are 12 different types of climate found on Earth. Each of the 12 climate types are grouped into 5 categories, except 1 (Highland). Climates in the same category share characteristics and usually are found in the same area. Climates change over time, usually the change is very slow. The Earth has experienced many different climates over its 4.54 billion years. There are many different factors that cause climates to shift and change.


To change from a "dry" climate to a "tropical" climate would take a huge event over thousands of years.

[tman]

So if people don't believe in the human effect on climate change, that's their right to an opinion as such; but clearly the evidence is all around us.

Anyone up for a nice glass of water from the Mississippi?

And these two ideas are related how? Chemicals in the water make global temperature change?

[MXGreg]

Here you go, global warming ended 16 years ago.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ve-it.html

[xd ED]

I think there's 2 types of climate change...... 1) the natural kind where the Earth ebbs and flows between ice age periods and not; and 2) the climate change caused by humans.

We've been around for a very short time compared to the Earth and Universe. In all our time here, as short as that is, it's only in the past 150 years that has humankind has been part of the industrial age....and in the past 150 years, we've caused more damage to the Earth than all previous years of our existence combined. What changed is that humankind stopped living in harmony with nature and seeing ourselves as part of it, and we began to treat it like a resource rather than as another part of us, and we as part of it.

We are part of nature. We are not apart from nature.

If the Earth was a human body; then we're like good cells gone bad because we've replicated at a faster rate than normal all the while creating and spilling toxins we've created which do not exist by themselves in nature, such as plastic.

You know what cells-gone-bad are called?

Cancer.

Humankind is pretty much a Cancer upon the Earth.

We didn't used to be.
We don't have to be, but we are because it's what we choose.

We all leave some toxic footprint upon the Earth with our car exhaust, plastic trash, etc. I work to reduce my carbon footprint, my waste, but it's still there. We all do it and we're all part of it. Even if you don't drive, your food was driven to you, the clothes on your back, it's all around us and there's no escaping it because it's part of our society. When we changed, society changed. When we thought ourselves apart from nature, so too became society apart from it, at least in mindset, but not in reality.

There are consequences for our actions and to be in denial of that is delusion.

Humankind has lived here without causing climate change for millenia, but that has now changed, and the sooner we accept that, accept the responsibility, and the sooner we can work towards a greener and natural existence, the better of we'll all be. To my knowledge, there's one Earth and if we wreck it, we're done for. The Earth may recover after a very long time without us, but we would last a very short time without it. We need the Earth, but it doesn't need us. It was here before us and it will be here after us. The choice really is ours to make.

So if people don't believe in the human effect on climate change, that's their right to an opinion as such; but clearly the evidence is all around us.

Anyone up for a nice glass of water from the Mississippi?

It's pretty safe bet that most of the people in the metro, at least half the people in this state, and a higher percentage of several other states, get their drinking water from Old Man River

[MNHandK]

I'd be willing to debate the our impact the environment if the politicians would sit it out.

I'd bet that if they incentivized cleaning it up, we'd see a drastic change. But none of it is going to matter unless other countries step up. Everyone wants us to clean everything up, spend our money, tax our companies.. Yet they haven't performed on the very same trade agreements and treaties..

[XDM45]

I think there's 2 types of climate change...... 1) the natural kind where the Earth ebbs and flows between ice age periods and not; and 2) the climate change caused by humans.

We've been around for a very short time compared to the Earth and Universe. In all our time here, as short as that is, it's only in the past 150 years that has humankind has been part of the industrial age....and in the past 150 years, we've caused more damage to the Earth than all previous years of our existence combined. What changed is that humankind stopped living in harmony with nature and seeing ourselves as part of it, and we began to treat it like a resource rather than as another part of us, and we as part of it.

We are part of nature. We are not apart from nature.

If the Earth was a human body; then we're like good cells gone bad because we've replicated at a faster rate than normal all the while creating and spilling toxins we've created which do not exist by themselves in nature, such as plastic.

You know what cells-gone-bad are called?

Cancer.

Humankind is pretty much a Cancer upon the Earth.

We didn't used to be.
We don't have to be, but we are because it's what we choose.

We all leave some toxic footprint upon the Earth with our car exhaust, plastic trash, etc. I work to reduce my carbon footprint, my waste, but it's still there. We all do it and we're all part of it. Even if you don't drive, your food was driven to you, the clothes on your back, it's all around us and there's no escaping it because it's part of our society. When we changed, society changed. When we thought ourselves apart from nature, so too became society apart from it, at least in mindset, but not in reality.

There are consequences for our actions and to be in denial of that is delusion.

Humankind has lived here without causing climate change for millenia, but that has now changed, and the sooner we accept that, accept the responsibility, and the sooner we can work towards a greener and natural existence, the better of we'll all be. To my knowledge, there's one Earth and if we wreck it, we're done for. The Earth may recover after a very long time without us, but we would last a very short time without it. We need the Earth, but it doesn't need us. It was here before us and it will be here after us. The choice really is ours to make.

So if people don't believe in the human effect on climate change, that's their right to an opinion as such; but clearly the evidence is all around us.

Anyone up for a nice glass of water from the Mississippi?

It's pretty safe bet that most of the people in the metro, at least half the people in this state, and a higher percentage of several other states, get their drinking water from Old Man River

Actually, the St Paul water supply is off of 694 and Rice Street. Not sure if that's the only supply, but I know that's one for sure. Also, no matter where the water comes from, it probably isn't pure, which is why I have a whole house filter, then \under my sink, another filtration system, then on my refrigerator, a 3rd and final system. I also have whole house RO, softner, and a few other things.

[XDM45]

So if people don't believe in the human effect on climate change, that's their right to an opinion as such; but clearly the evidence is all around us.

Anyone up for a nice glass of water from the Mississippi?

And these two ideas are related how? Chemicals in the water make global temperature change?

All of the pollution contributes to the climate change. Water that's in the lakes and rivers goes into the air, becomes rain, back into the ground, rivers, lakes, oceans, again, everything is connected. No, cars and factories in and of by themselves pollution do not cause climate change solely by themselves, but they are part of it, and climate change is not a fast thing that happens. (Weather changes fast, but not climate.)

Look at the lack of glaciers in Glacier National Park over the past 100 years. Look at our own MN winters and how mild they've become compared to the ones we had in the 60s, 70s and even 80s. Yes, we had some bad storms, like the Halloween storm of 1991, but I'm talking about overall. It's been warmer and milder. Lots of examples. I'm not sure why people want to deny the fact that we're pollution the Earth, it's all connected, and we are changing the Earth and the climate not for the better. I'm not saying the end is near, I'm saying that it is happening with the climate change, pollution, how everything is connected and thus affected, whether we like it or not, whether we admit it or not.

[xd ED]

I think there's 2 types of climate change...... 1) the natural kind where the Earth ebbs and flows between ice age periods and not; and 2) the climate change caused by humans.

We've been around for a very short time compared to the Earth and Universe. In all our time here, as short as that is, it's only in the past 150 years that has humankind has been part of the industrial age....and in the past 150 years, we've caused more damage to the Earth than all previous years of our existence combined. What changed is that humankind stopped living in harmony with nature and seeing ourselves as part of it, and we began to treat it like a resource rather than as another part of us, and we as part of it.

We are part of nature. We are not apart from nature.

If the Earth was a human body; then we're like good cells gone bad because we've replicated at a faster rate than normal all the while creating and spilling toxins we've created which do not exist by themselves in nature, such as plastic.

You know what cells-gone-bad are called?

Cancer.

Humankind is pretty much a Cancer upon the Earth.

We didn't used to be.
We don't have to be, but we are because it's what we choose.

We all leave some toxic footprint upon the Earth with our car exhaust, plastic trash, etc. I work to reduce my carbon footprint, my waste, but it's still there. We all do it and we're all part of it. Even if you don't drive, your food was driven to you, the clothes on your back, it's all around us and there's no escaping it because it's part of our society. When we changed, society changed. When we thought ourselves apart from nature, so too became society apart from it, at least in mindset, but not in reality.

There are consequences for our actions and to be in denial of that is delusion.

Humankind has lived here without causing climate change for millenia, but that has now changed, and the sooner we accept that, accept the responsibility, and the sooner we can work towards a greener and natural existence, the better of we'll all be. To my knowledge, there's one Earth and if we wreck it, we're done for. The Earth may recover after a very long time without us, but we would last a very short time without it. We need the Earth, but it doesn't need us. It was here before us and it will be here after us. The choice really is ours to make.

So if people don't believe in the human effect on climate change, that's their right to an opinion as such; but clearly the evidence is all around us.

Anyone up for a nice glass of water from the Mississippi?

It's pretty safe bet that most of the people in the metro, at least half the people in this state, and a higher percentage of several other states, get their drinking water from Old Man River

Actually, the St Paul water supply is off of 694 and Rice Street. Not sure if that's the only supply, but I know that's one for sure. Also, no matter where the water comes from, it probably isn't pure, which is why I have a whole house filter, then \under my sink, another filtration system, then on my refrigerator, a 3rd and final system. I also have whole house RO, softner, and a few other things.

Yes, there are several lakes in the supply reservoir chain, all in Northern Ramsey County. Water is pumped from the Miss River in Fridley to Charles Lk in North Oaks, through canals to Pleasant, Sucker, and Vadnais Lakes, then to the McCarron's Treatment Plant on Rice St.

To use the term 'pure ' with any water is quite a misnomer- Pure water doesn't exist anywhere on this planet. There are always other compounds- metals, minerals, gases in solution, be they considered good or bad. And as you have softener, there is likely a fair amount of sodium in your water. Softened water has been associated with various ailments due to an abundance of Sodium, and the lack of removed trace minerals, most notably Magnesium.

[texasprowler]

Back in the seventies, they used to run a commercial with an indian on a horse, then a car drives by and throws out some fast food trash followed by a tear running down his face.

I bought into that propaganda for many years. Then one day I put it all together and realized that everything we have came from this planet, we dug it up, changed it's shape, then buried it in landfill. We put it back where it came from, thus completing a cycle.

Just as energy and heat never disappears, only changing shape, what we have and use never disappears either, lest we send it out to space.

It is a vain man (re: Al Gore) that believes man is so powerful to effect/control mother nature.

[xd ED]

Back in the seventies, they used to run a commercial with an indian on a horse, then a car drives by and throws out some fast food trash followed by a tear running down his face.

I bought into that propaganda for many years. Then one day I put it all together and realized that everything we have came from this planet, we dug it up, changed it's shape, then buried it in landfill. We put it back where it came from, thus completing a cycle.

Just as energy and heat never disappears, only changing shape, what we have and use never disappears either, lest we send it out to space.

It is a vain man (re: Al Gore) that believes man is so powerful to effect/control mother nature.

[texasprowler]

I think there's 2 types of climate change...... 1) the natural kind where the Earth ebbs and flows between ice age periods and not; and 2) the climate change caused by humans.

We've been around for a very short time compared to the Earth and Universe. In all our time here, as short as that is, it's only in the past 150 years that has humankind has been part of the industrial age....and in the past 150 years, we've caused more damage to the Earth than all previous years of our existence combined. What changed is that humankind stopped living in harmony with nature and seeing ourselves as part of it, and we began to treat it like a resource rather than as another part of us, and we as part of it.

We are part of nature. We are not apart from nature.

If the Earth was a human body; then we're like good cells gone bad because we've replicated at a faster rate than normal all the while creating and spilling toxins we've created which do not exist by themselves in nature, such as plastic.

You know what cells-gone-bad are called?

Cancer.

Humankind is pretty much a Cancer upon the Earth.

We didn't used to be.
We don't have to be, but we are because it's what we choose.

We all leave some toxic footprint upon the Earth with our car exhaust, plastic trash, etc. I work to reduce my carbon footprint, my waste, but it's still there. We all do it and we're all part of it. Even if you don't drive, your food was driven to you, the clothes on your back, it's all around us and there's no escaping it because it's part of our society. When we changed, society changed. When we thought ourselves apart from nature, so too became society apart from it, at least in mindset, but not in reality.

There are consequences for our actions and to be in denial of that is delusion.

Humankind has lived here without causing climate change for millenia, but that has now changed, and the sooner we accept that, accept the responsibility, and the sooner we can work towards a greener and natural existence, the better of we'll all be. To my knowledge, there's one Earth and if we wreck it, we're done for. The Earth may recover after a very long time without us, but we would last a very short time without it. We need the Earth, but it doesn't need us. It was here before us and it will be here after us. The choice really is ours to make.

So if people don't believe in the human effect on climate change, that's their right to an opinion as such; but clearly the evidence is all around us.

Anyone up for a nice glass of water from the Mississippi?

It's pretty safe bet that most of the people in the metro, at least half the people in this state, and a higher percentage of several other states, get their drinking water from Old Man River

Actually, the St Paul water supply is off of 694 and Rice Street. Not sure if that's the only supply, but I know that's one for sure. Also, no matter where the water comes from, it probably isn't pure, which is why I have a whole house filter, then \under my sink, another filtration system, then on my refrigerator, a 3rd and final system. I also have whole house RO, softner, and a few other things.

A whole house RO? Are you aware of how corrosive RO water is, with it's missing ion and all?
What is the environmental impact of your water treatment? Plastic, paper, charcoal, open pit salt mines, filters going to the landfill. Where does the used saltwater and expunged lime go? Back to the river?

[MNHandK]

So if people don't believe in the human effect on climate change, that's their right to an opinion as such; but clearly the evidence is all around us.

Anyone up for a nice glass of water from the Mississippi?

And these two ideas are related how? Chemicals in the water make global temperature change?

All of the pollution contributes to the climate change. Water that's in the lakes and rivers goes into the air, becomes rain, back into the ground, rivers, lakes, oceans, again, everything is connected. No, cars and factories in and of by themselves pollution do not cause climate change solely by themselves, but they are part of it, and climate change is not a fast thing that happens. (Weather changes fast, but not climate.)

Look at the lack of glaciers in Glacier National Park over the past 100 years. Look at our own MN winters and how mild they've become compared to the ones we had in the 60s, 70s and even 80s. Yes, we had some bad storms, like the Halloween storm of 1991, but I'm talking about overall. It's been warmer and milder. Lots of examples. I'm not sure why people want to deny the fact that we're pollution the Earth, it's all connected, and we are changing the Earth and the climate not for the better. I'm not saying the end is near, I'm saying that it is happening with the climate change, pollution, how everything is connected and thus affected, whether we like it or not, whether we admit it or not.

The earth, having been around a bit longer than we have, has gone to the extremes numerous times with respect to climate. Ice ages, warming periods. It's easy for someone today to take the limited data we have and make it look like we're facing an "end of the world as we know it" scenario.

I'm not sold. And I don't trust other people's motives, nor everyone else's stupidity.

What happens in the '60s '70s and '80s... Probably the same that happened in 1460 1470 and 1480. 100-150 years of data isn't enough to draw an accurate picture.

[xd ED]

Yep. A mere 15,000 years ago most of the upper midwest was under about a mile deep ice glacier. Who's to say in another 15,000 years it won't again be?

[grousemaster]

If this thread turns into another circus, XDM45 is officially our court jester

[meddin]

If this thread turns into another circus, XDM45 is officially our court jester

We will be fine if we just dont shoot our rifles under 400 yds.