Gun Confiscation and the Assault Weapons Ban neither are fea

[darkwolf45]

Many of the guns would be turned in by those who were afraid of the consequences before all this happened. Thos that were left, it would be systematic and likely randomized in terms of who and when they searched. I seriously doubt adherence to the 4th amendment would be even a consideration. Also, how many of your friends and neighbors would turn you in?

All im sayin is that a heroic last stand in your castle against tyranny isnt going to happen. Your options would be limited. Revolt en mass, turn your weapons in, or wait for them to come after you when you are least able to stand up for yourself. But the "i stand alone" thing wont work. It would barely be any more effective than walkimg in to a police station, handcuffing yourself and asking them to arrest you because you broke the state's laws.

[XDM45]

Many of the guns would be turned in by those who were afraid of the consequences before all this happened. Thos that were left, it would be systematic and likely randomized in terms of who and when they searched. I seriously doubt adherence to the 4th amendment would be even a consideration. Also, how many of your friends and neighbors would turn you in?

All im sayin is that a heroic last stand in your castle against tyranny isnt going to happen. Your options would be limited. Revolt en mass, turn your weapons in, or wait for them to come after you when you are least able to stand up for yourself. But the "i stand alone" thing wont work. It would barely be any more effective than walkimg in to a police station, handcuffing yourself and asking them to arrest you because you broke the state's laws.

So what's your solution? Give up? Turn in your guns? Surrender your freedom and life willingly? What exactly are you supporting with such a defeatist attitude? Should we have given up in 1776? Maybe we should just drink your Kool Aid and all off ourselves now so it's safer and easier for them, is that what you're advocating? or perhaps you're advocating living on your knees?

Tell ya'all what...........

I will be more than happy to relieve anyone of their guns and ammo they don't want and are so willing to give them up. Rather than give them up to a government, turn them into me and they may be used for a better purpose than destruction by the government. I will relieve of you this burden.

[eldo]

Probably won't be too many heroic castle last stands.
Even the bubbas realize sheetrock walls and vinyl siding make poor cover.

What I'm afraid will happen is that the 2%ers will be much more proactive than sitting around watching TV with an AR in their lap waiting for the Feds to kick the door down.

http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/2013/02/26/

[darkwolf45]

You are overreacting. Im not suggesting to give up, im simply describing a scenario to the best of my ability. The second amendment is important because none of your other rights mean jack without the ability to stand up for them in the face of those who would deny you your rights.

I have been in far more situations where i was in a fight I knew i was going to lose, but that fear of losing has never stopped me from fighting back anyways. If you are bound to lose might as well make them work for it since youre getting your ass kicked either way.

My belief is in a gun confiscation scenario, confront the law, head on and as a group. Dont look for a fire fight, but understand that those are your choices- give up peacefully and still get your ass kicked or fight back. If you wait for them to come to your home they will win and they will almost always do it in a way where you wont be able to fight back.

Those who wish they could take your guns are perfectly happy to put others lives in danger to take your guns with whatever force is necessary. What are you willing to sacrifice in return?

[XDM45]

Probably won't be too many heroic castle last stands.
Even the bubbas realize sheetrock walls and vinyl siding make poor cover.

What I'm afraid will happen is that the 2%ers will be much more proactive than sitting around watching TV with an AR in their lap waiting for the Feds to kick the door down.

http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/2013/02/26/

Some of those "bubbas" have bunkers, like the guy that kidnapped that boy down in AL a few weeks ago. As for "What I'm afraid will happen is that the 2%ers will be much more proactive than sitting around watching TV with an AR in their lap waiting for the Feds to kick the door down.", all I can say is that sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Just sayin'

[darkwolf45]

True. I would really prefer an offense that doesnt require a shot though. Assuming that is possible.

[XDM45]

You are overreacting. Im not suggesting to give up, im simply describing a scenario to the best of my ability.

Ok. Fair enough. I can roll with that.

The second amendment is important because none of your other rights mean jack without the ability to stand up for them in the face of those who would deny you your rights.

Absolutely 100% agreed.

I have been in far more situations where i was in a fight I knew i was going to lose, but that fear of losing has never stopped me from fighting back anyways. If you are bound to lose might as well make them work for it since youre getting your ass kicked either way.

Been there, done that as well. Sometimes it can't be avoided and then yes, go down fighting if you can't win, then make your goal to make them suffer as much as you can. Win anyway you can.

My belief is in a gun confiscation scenario, confront the law, head on and as a group. Dont look for a fire fight, but understand that those are your choices- give up peacefully and still get your ass kicked or fight back. If you wait for them to come to your home they will win and they will almost always do it in a way where you wont be able to fight back.

Agreed again.

Those who wish they could take your guns are perfectly happy to put others lives in danger to take your guns with whatever force is necessary.

Sadly, yes.

What are you willing to sacrifice in return?

It is my goal, in the spirit of George S. Patton, not to die for freedom, but to make the other bastard die for trying to take it from me. If, in the pursuit of that goal, I happen to die, I have not lost my life, I have taken it with me and refused to partake in the existence of living on my knees. Being alive is not life. That's not living. Simply being in the state of alive is merely existing. It's what you do with that existence that either transforms it into a life, or whether it remains an existence and a shallow, hollow shell of what could have been. It's all a matter of viewpoint.

[darkwolf45]

Excellent point. Now, how many REALLY feel that way. Its easy to say now, but when you are facing prison time, loss of you family, end of your middle class lifestyle....

[XDM45]

Excellent point. Now, how many REALLY feel that way. Its easy to say now, but when you are facing prison time, loss of you family, end of your middle class lifestyle....

It's not how many feel that way, but would act upon those feelings which matter. I cannot speak for anyone except myself, but I will be free in life and in death. I can assure you that I will never a slave, never in prison, or anything such as that. My family, while I love them, would have to understand that I wouldn't do them any good being enslaved or imprisoned, either of which if I survived, wouldn't return me to them as I am now. So who I am now would be effectively dead anyway because my soul and who I am would be changed. The old "Me" would be dead. Granted, we all change in life and aren't the same person we were even a year ago, but that's natural evolution by our own hand, which is quite different than what we're talking about here; and I cannot and will not allow another to change me in such a way beyond my own personal evolution.

The most dangerous person is the one who does neither embraces, nor fears death, but will as a matter of principle go forth facing it because the alternative isn't even an option. There is no choice to do otherwise, because to go against one's very nature is the ultimate betrayal of one's self, a betrayal one cannot live with, and so onward one must proceed to be true to one's self. To paraphrase a famous line out of a holy text, it does nothing to gain the World and lose your own soul in the process.

[minnhawk]

Darkwolf45 is calling us out, and he is right. Posturing and beating your chest, telling us how you'll go down fighting is one thing, actually doing it is quite another, especially when you've never been shot at. I don't know if the genetic code within the men who grabbed their rifles and rallied at Concord Bridge and then at Bunker Hill can be found in our American stock.

That took some really big balls.

They faced death, prison time, loss of their family and property, the end of their freedom........what would it take to trigger that same decision in today's society?

I'm an older fart and have lived a good life. I've soldiered and trained and led. I have a lot less to lose than some of you young bucks, and I hope I have the courage to grab my rifle and meet at Concord bridge if it ever comes to that. I just wonder how many will really show up...........and what it will take.

[eldo]

XDM45,
The reason why I say "afraid" is I believe .fed can't attempt to successfully confiscate guns without essentially turning the country into a police state. The end result will be protracted asymetrical civil conflict.
Think Northern Ireland where a couple hundred Irish Republican Army irregulars fought the British Army to a standstill.

[darkwolf45]

I would maintain that if you say you believe in these principles but are never willing to act on them, then really you dont believe in them.

Also, keep in mind that if you act with 1000s, its a movement. If you raise arms by yourself, youre just a mass murderer

[NMRMN]

In case you all haven't seen this article -- it offers one perspective on many issues raised in this thread:
http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2013 ... -to-fight/

it is an extraordinarily difficult debate, because of course, resisting arrest is illegal. We do not have much guidance that I am aware of, other than one's own conscience (and of course the founding father's admonitions on the subject), of what a large population should do when confronted by a systematically illegal and violent authority in the US. I imagine this is not an area where the federal government would concede much ground easily, if it ever decided to go that route. However, the fact that so many sheriff's and even state legislative bodies have taken up this issue give some hope that there could be legal and rational grounds for self-defense... If it were to come to all out civil war, a possibility I consider remote, none of this discussion would really matter anyway.

[Uffdaphil]

It really does come down to the numbers when the dirty deal goes down. How many gun owners are sheep in wolves clothing? How many LEOs and military will "just follow orders?" What percentage of government apparatchiks will put allegiance to the Constitution above state and federal code? And most importantly, how many citizens will have become so dependent on the state they will remain Tories no matter what rights are erased?

[XDM45]

Darkwolf45 is calling us out, and he is right. Posturing and beating your chest, telling us how you'll go down fighting is one thing, actually doing it is quite another, especially when you've never been shot at. I don't know if the genetic code within the men who grabbed their rifles and rallied at Concord Bridge and then at Bunker Hill can be found in our American stock.

That took some really big balls.

They faced death, prison time, loss of their family and property, the end of their freedom........what would it take to trigger that same decision in today's society?

I'm an older fart and have lived a good life. I've soldiered and trained and led. I have a lot less to lose than some of you young bucks, and I hope I have the courage to grab my rifle and meet at Concord bridge if it ever comes to that. I just wonder how many will really show up...........and what it will take.

I'll be there. Count on it.

XDM45,
The reason why I say "afraid" is I believe .fed can't attempt to successfully confiscate guns without essentially turning the country into a police state. The end result will be protracted asymetrical civil conflict.
Think Northern Ireland where a couple hundred Irish Republican Army irregulars fought the British Army to a standstill.

It may go like that, or it may go like 1776. Hopefully we never have to find out, but it's always a good idea to be ready in case we do. History has a way of repeating itself. We've already had one Revolutionary and one Civil War(s).

I would maintain that if you say you believe in these principles but are never willing to act on them, then really you dont believe in them.

Exactly.

Also, keep in mind that if you act with 1000s, its a movement. If you raise arms by yourself, youre just a mass murderer

If you act by yourself, maybe your John Rambo, insane, a leader, or like the guy in the movie who is "Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!" Either way, keep your balls of steel away from magnets. Genius and crazy are separated by a very fine line that is often blurred.

In case you all haven't seen this article -- it addresses many issues raised here:
http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2013 ... -to-fight/

it is an extraordinarily difficult debate, because of course, resisting arrest is illegal. We do not have much guidance that I am aware of, other than one's own conscience (and of course the founding father's admonitions on the subject), of what a large population should do when confronted by a systematically illegal and violent authority in the US. I imagine this is not an area where the federal government would concede much ground easily, if it ever decided to go that route. However, the fact that so many sheriff's and even state legislative bodies have taken up this issue give some hope that there could be legal and rational grounds for self-defense... If it were to come to all out civil war, a possibility I consider remote, none of this discussion would really matter anyway.

Agreed.