North Dakota Reciprocity

[MaryB]

We really need to push for a national permit to carry license that supersedes all states.

[mrp]

We really need to push for a national permit to carry license that supersedes all states.

Why should you need a license?

Why would the federal government have the authority to issue one?

What do you think the requirements and restrictions would be?

[cobb]

We really need to push for a national permit to carry license that supersedes all states.

NO, NO, NO we don't.
The US government has screwed up so many things and you want them to set up a national carry permit??? If they did, It would probably be so restrictive with carry locations and restrictions that it would be almost useless. I could maybe see a law pertaining to recognition of other state permits, but that again is the federal government stepping on state rights which they already do too much of now.

[XDM45]

We really need to push for a national permit to carry license that supersedes all states.

NO, NO, NO we don't.
The US government has screwed up so many things and you want them to set up a national carry permit??? If they did, It would probably be so restrictive with carry locations and restrictions that it would be almost useless. I could maybe see a law pertaining to recognition of other state permits, but that again is the federal government stepping on state rights which the already do too much of now.

Agreed.

I think the best route to go is how it needs to be done for marriage of all individuals (I dislike the term "Gay Marriage", after all, people don't say he had a "Gay Death" do they?) or when it comes to Marijuana legalization, same deal.... it needs to be a grassroots state-by-state effort. Once marriage of any individual is legal in all (or the vast majority) of states, then the Federal Government can do some sort of additional blanket law for coverage. In the case of marriage, certain marriages aren't recognized at the federal level even though they are at the state level. In the case of pot, even though it's legal on the state level in certain states, it's not legal on the federal level.

The problem is that when the federal overrides the state, like what happens with pot raids in CA, even though it's legal in the state. the trick is for there to be a federal law for pot, marriage, carrying, anything really, that doesn't override the state law(s). A good Federal law would add to, enhance, not take away from, any and/or all state laws. So the question is, how do you do that?

Government doesn't solve problems, it subsidizes them usually.....so it's a sticky wicket.

[collateral]

I don't understand the confusion? Look at the ND atty general link. http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/reciprocity.htm

"RECIPROCAL STATES: North Dakota concealed weapons licenses are recognized in the following states and a concealed weapon license issued by any state listed below is recognized in North Dakota, so long as the weapon is carried in accordance with North Dakota’s laws."

Looking at the list Florida, is clearly listed. The reference to "This state does not recognize non-resident concealed weapon licenses issued by ND" refers to FL accepting the ND permit. Not the other way around. From what I see the foot notes are commenting on requirements FL would have on a ND permit holder.

[xd ED]

I don't understand the confusion? Look at the ND atty general link. http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/reciprocity.htm

"RECIPROCAL STATES: North Dakota concealed weapons licenses are recognized in the following states and a concealed weapon license issued by any state listed below is recognized in North Dakota, so long as the weapon is carried in accordance with North Dakota’s laws."

Looking at the list Florida, is clearly listed. The reference to "This state does not recognize non-resident concealed weapon licenses issued by ND" refers to FL accepting the ND permit. Not the other way around. From what I see the foot notes are commenting on requirements FL would have on a ND permit holder.

I think the confusion may be this:

ATTENTION: Effective 8-1-2013 ND concealed weapon licenses issued to residents of non-reciprocal states are invalid.

http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/CW.htm

FWIW, I asked the following of the NoDak AG:

Dear Attorney General.

There is concern and confusion among Minnesota firearm owners with regard to the recent changes in North Dakota law permitting the carry of firearms by non-residents.
While it is clear that a Minnesota resident can not currently acquire a North Dakota handgun carry permit, the question remains:
Can a Minnesota resident carry a handgun in North Dakota if that resident is in possession of a permit from a state with which North Dakota recognizes reciprocity; i.e: Florida or Arizona?
Asked another way:
Does a non-resident need a North Dakota permit, or, will a non-resident permit from a state observing North Dakota reciprocity suffice?
Thank you in advance for the clarification.
Regards,
xdED
Saint Paul, Minnesota

The answer I received was to see the web page I linked to:

Office of Attorney General

Please refer to the website: http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/CW.htm. This website contains information on which states have reciprocity with North Dakota and those state licenses/permits that North Dakota does recognize to legally allow carrying of a concealed weapon.

I hope this information is helpful.

Liz Brocker, PIO

ND Office of Attorney General

600 E. Boulevard Ave #125

Bismarck ND 58505

Taking it at face value, the possession of a FLA or AZ permits, among others perhaps, appear to make it leagal for a MN resident to carry in NoDak.
But as always:
IANAL, remember what you paid for this advice.

[george]

When I talked to the AG office, they explained it as;
If you are a MN. resident or any other non reciprocal state, you may carry on a non resident permit of a
state with reciprocity as long as you also carry a resident permit from your home state.
If you have a reciprocal state permit but NOT a resident permit, they will not honor the reciprocal state permit.
They also said things are up in the air and could change so not to destroy the ND. permit if you have one as the notice
said.
They were very nice but sounded like calls were getting the best of them.

[RobD]

This needs to be fixed on our end, by our Comish. of Public Safety.

The good news. even though she's a Dayton acolyte, she's been fairly responsive on several topics, including improving the vastly erroneous FAQ section on the BCA site.

There's really no reason ND's upper tier permit couldn't be honored here, it's "substantially similar".

At the end of the day, it may require a new administration to fix it.

[Rip Van Winkle]

This needs to be fixed on our end, by our Comish. of Public Safety.

[Makarov]

How I'm reading this:
If you are a legal resident of MN, and you have a valid PTC in MN, you now can NOT obtain a ND CWL (Concealed Weapon License) simply because MN does not "recognize" the ND CWL.

Because MN does not recognize the ND CWL, (no reason given ) reciprocity is not possible between MN & ND ( apparently caused by some sort of long standing urinary flow contest between the two states)

A MN resident (MN drivers license with MN address) who has a valid PTC in MN and also has a valid PTC in UT, AZ, and/or FL....is still NOT valid to carry in ND, because the person's "home state" is actually MN. (reference urinary problem above, and quote below)
•A copy of your current driver’s license or state issued photo identification card. If your driver’s license or identification card was issued in a state other than ND, you also will need to attach a copy of a valid concealed weapon license from your home state, which state must have reciprocity with ND

Reciprocity being based on persons home state of residence.
4.Your state of residence is determined by your driver's license. If you are not a ND resident, you must have a valid concealed weapon license from your home state, which state must have reciprocity with ND

[george]

Almost, If you are from MN. and have a MN. P2C they will honor a permit from a reciprocal state like FL. etc.
If you do not have a resident permit they will not honor a permit even if it's from a reciprocal state.
Kind of a backwards approach of UT.

[xd ED]

Almost, If you are from MN. and have a MN. P2C they will honor a permit from a reciprocal state like FL. etc.
If you do not have a resident permit they will not honor a permit even if it's from a reciprocal state.
Kind of a backwards approach of UT.

You state earlier you spoke with the NoDak AG.
Did you get their opinion in writing?
I am inclined to interpret things as you've outlined them, but I have no illusions as to what my opinion will be worth on the side of the road in that legendary land.

[Makarov]

Almost, If you are from MN. and have a MN. P2C they will honor a permit from a reciprocal state like FL. etc.
If you do not have a resident permit they will not honor a permit even if it's from a reciprocal state.
Kind of a backwards approach of UT.

I hear ya, and what your saying would certainly seem to make/be "common sense".

However, as they (ND) have the law written right now, I keep seeing these words:
you must have a valid concealed weapon license from your home state, which state must have reciprocity with ND

Home state and reciprocity are very clearly defined in the ND info links.
To me, MN is clearly excluded.....and singled out as "Will not provide reason".

Sadly, "common sense" at the state level, is not all that common today....
Especially when one state....MN .....Will not provide a reason why.

That's my 2 cents (which actually costs about a nickle to produce today)

[xd ED]

Almost, If you are from MN. and have a MN. P2C they will honor a permit from a reciprocal state like FL. etc.
If you do not have a resident permit they will not honor a permit even if it's from a reciprocal state.
Kind of a backwards approach of UT.

I hear ya, and what your saying would certainly seem to make/be "common sense".

However, as they (ND) have the law written right now, I keep seeing these words:
you must have a valid concealed weapon license from your home state, which state must have reciprocity with ND

Home state and reciprocity are very clearly defined in the ND info links.
To me, MN is clearly excluded.....and singled out as "Will not provide reason".

Sadly, "common sense" at the state level, is not all that common today....
Especially when one state....MN .....Will not provide a reason why.

That's my 2 cents (which actually costs about a nickle to produce today)

I don't have ready access to the codes. But I believe I read it that a MN resident doesn't qualify to get a NoDak permit, a MN resident could carry with the appropriate( AZ, FL) permit. That is what I attempted to clarify by contacting the NoDak AG. As noted above they pretty much blew me off.

[RobD]

I don't have ready access to the codes. But I believe I read it that a MN resident doesn't qualify to get a NoDak permit, a MN resident could carry with the appropriate( AZ, FL) permit. That is what I attempted to clarify by contacting the NoDak AG. As noted above they pretty much blew me off.

Non-ND residents must have a valid concealed weapon license from their home state, which state must have reciprocity with North Dakota. The home state is determined by the driver’s license.

https://www.ag.nd.gov/documents/07-31-13.pdf

There is no way a MN resident can carry in ND right now.