Respectfully, I do not want 'Constitutional Carry' in MN :)

[bstrawse]

There are approximately 2 million gun owners in Minnesota.

There are 158,303 permit holders (at last count)

b

[Rip Van Winkle]

But let's say that in 12 months all the laws in MN were changed to allow 'Constutional Carry' I think in 24 months we'd be SO EMBARRASSED WITH THE BAD BEHAVIOR OF OUR FELLOW MAN, that we'd WANT some carry restrictions. But of course we'd have A-Holes firing guns into the air to back off neighbors etc that it wouldn't be our choice as to what restrictions would be made into law....the Anti's would have the momentum to pass very restrictive laws.

With all due respect, you sound just like the anti's arguing against the MPPA in 2003. "Gunfights over parking spaces", "blood in the streets", "bodies stacked like cordwood".

Please explain how changing the law will change the now law abiding gun owners of the state into the psychotic neanderthals you're envisioning.

[bensdad]

we'd have A-Holes firing guns into the air to back off neighbors etc

This is so wrong I don't even know how to address it. I have a feeling (and my feelings are pretty well tuned) that, at this point, you realize how silly your notion is - that constitutional carry would have catastrophic results - but you've gotten too "invested" in it with this thread.

There's nothing wrong with saying you had a brain-fart or were affected by some separate issues. I constantly have to admit I was wrong (cuz Bensmom is always RIGHT... just ask her ).

[xd ED]

The previous two posts say it all.

Laws guide the law abiding.

It's always been illegal to "…. have A-Holes firing guns into the air to back off neighbors etc….".

Carry laws really don't control what happens in one's back yard.

One more, or less law won't impact the guy who wants to impress his neighbor with celebratory gunfire.

[Rmfcasey]

I won a case of beer from a guy who thought like the OP. He bet me there would be bar fights with legal carriers in the first year. Why would people be less law abiding with fewer laws. OP needs to apply a little more of the laws of logic. Seems strange to value freedom for me but not for thee.
Rmfcasey

[gunsmith]

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

MCPPA is but 10 years old.

One 'catchphrase' I hear (appropriately) engaged in relation to gun rights is 'Chess not Checkers'

If I'm playing chess I'm willing to go another ten years of building the...'culture / infrastructure' of gun ownership before another expansion.....THE SUCCESS OF WHICH WOULD BE UNCERTAIN

We just a month ago saw the formation of a bona fide Political Action Committee with money and lobby guys.

My core conviction here is that the 'Stupid people / underclass / trailer trash / thugs' would ruin it for the rest of us...Life just isn't that easy or pretty that we can expect the right things to happen....look at the stupidity that's going on in NY, Colorado, California & Connecticut. Do you want to be fighting those battles instead of working on 'DEFENSE OF HOME AND PERSON' We passed it through both houses...possibly Dayton''s handlers will tell him to sign it this time.

To 'Catch-Phrase-it' Constitutional Carry would be one step forward AND TWO STEPS BACKWARD

I"m going change my forum name to 'The Pontiff'

[minnhawk]

Gunsmith: Please back off the notion that AZ is "the wild west" in comparison to Minnesota. You can drop the population of two complete Twin Cities into the Phoenix area with plenty of people left over. Outstate is not heavily populated.......in either state. When I drive around the "Valley of the Sun" I do not witness gunfights, automatic weapons fire, or two dudes "dueling" in the middle of the street. Nor do I see or hear regular citizens shooting illegal immigrants on a daily basis, or Black Bart returning to his cattle rustling days.

[gunsmith]

Gunsmith: Please back off the notion that AZ is "the wild west" in comparison to Minnesota. You can drop the population of two complete Twin Cities into the Phoenix area with plenty of people left over. Outstate is not heavily populated.......in either state. When I drive around the "Valley of the Sun" I do not witness gunfights, automatic weapons fire, or two dudes "dueling" in the middle of the street. Nor do I see or hear regular citizens shooting illegal immigrants on a daily basis, or Black Bart returning to his cattle rustling days.

I thought that FULLY ONE HALF of MN's population was 'outstate' 50/50 and that's one advantage we have over NY...Where you have Practical outstaters overwhelmed by 15 Million City Rats

[gunsmith]

Also....arent we talking about a battle we've won already???

We are a SHALL ISSUE state. With the issuing done by the Sheriff not the politically appointed Police Chief.

Here are the Measely requirements for a permit: fromt the BCA WEBSITE:

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-di ... y-faq.aspx

What are the requirements for getting a permit to carry?
Must be at least 21 years of age
Must complete an application form
Must not be prohibited from possessing a firearm under Minnesota Statute 624.714
Must not be listed in the criminal gang investigation system
Must be a resident of the county from which you are requesting a permit, if you reside in Minnesota. Non-residents may apply to any Minnesota county sheriff.
Must provide certificate of completed authorized firearms training. Training by a certified instructor must be completed within one year of an original or renewal application. (624.714, Subd. 2a)

Who are we excluding?
Bad guys with records

What are we requiring?
A few hours of training every five years.

What's not to like

[xd ED]

Also....arent we talking about a battle we've won already???

We are a SHALL ISSUE state. With the issuing done by the Sheriff not the politically appointed Police Chief.

Here are the Measely requirements for a permit: fromt the BCA WEBSITE:

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-di ... y-faq.aspx

What are the requirements for getting a permit to carry?
Must be at least 21 years of age
Must complete an application form
Must not be prohibited from possessing a firearm under Minnesota Statute 624.714
Must not be listed in the criminal gang investigation system
Must be a resident of the county from which you are requesting a permit, if you reside in Minnesota. Non-residents may apply to any Minnesota county sheriff.
Must provide certificate of completed authorized firearms training. Training by a certified instructor must be completed within one year of an original or renewal application. (624.714, Subd. 2a)

Who are we excluding?
Bad guys with records

What are we requiring?
A few hours of training every five years.

What's not to like

For starters:
.gov- that same group that gins up the criminal industry with things like prohibition/ the war on drugs, and turns a blind eye to the perpetrators and results- now deciding whether you are worthy/ competent/ correct thinking enough to be bestowed the privilege of self-defense

[gunsmith]

For starters:
.gov- that same group that gins up the criminal industry with things like prohibition/ the war on drugs, and turns a blind eye to the perpetrators and results- now deciding whether you are worthy/ competent/ correct thinking enough to be bestowed the privilege of self-defense

NO NO NO....WE wrote the law....ask Professor Joe Olson

AND isn't there near universal agreement that 'Bad Guys with records' (a conviction for assualt, robbery, rape for instance) be banned from carrying?

And the other Zone of requirement is TRAINING opeational, safety, legality.

I'm calling 'Tempest in a Teapot'

[Rip Van Winkle]

How is it legal for a "Bad guy with a record" to carry something illegal for him to possess?

[AFTERMATH]

If we can't trust someone to act responsibly with a firearm - why do we let them roam the streets to begin with?

Freedom?….Liberty?

Exactly.

[gunsmith]

The more I think about it the less there is to debate here....

Who can not get a permit in mn?

What is required? 4 hours of training every five years.

Now If we had permit to carry regs like NYC or DC THEN there would be a battle to be fought...

Calling Professor Joe Olson (author of the MCPPA) Calling Professor Joe Olson....What would you change about the law of significance???

You could think of something but not much.

I personally would like to see a 2A in the MN constitution if any thing goes wonky with the Federal situation.

[Jeff Bergquist]

Calling Professor Joe Olson (author of the MCPPA) Calling Professor Joe Olson....What would you change about the law of significance???

They did a pretty good job with the law as written, but having said that, the only thing it accomplishes is to prevent law abiding citizens willing to get permits from being subject to arrest for being armed. Whether we have a carry law or not really does nothing to affect anyone who doesn't care about breaking the law, and any bad guy who wishes to is going to be armed whether we approve or not. Since most bad guys are felons already, they are already forbidden to possess weapons under either previous statute, or the current law, or for that matter a hypothetical constitutional carry law, but I'm sure they don't care a whit.

I may be putting words in peoples mouths, but I think that while the current law definitely could be worse, most people in favor of constitutional carry lament the fact that a carry law was even necessary in order to protect the law abiding from offhand denial of their rights by law enforcement, or being subject to arrest for wanting to defend themselves and their loved ones, which is the only thing it actually does.