Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

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Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby warrlac on Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:35 pm

Former U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was in town.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/279861492.html

Accused of stalking and you lose your right to own your guns... :|

Support the NRA is all I can say.
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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby LePetomane on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:08 am

I'm sure she said that she supports the Second Amendment , too.
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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby photogpat on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:05 am

Both Klobuchar and Giffords will pay lip service to the 2nd. They only have to convince the middle to swing their way....not convince us.

This is why they're dangerous.
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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby 20mm on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:55 pm

I accuse the NSA and DoD of "Stalking"... where can I go to collect my judgement?
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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby MWAG on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:40 pm

20mm wrote:I accuse the NSA and DoD of "Stalking"... where can I go to collect my judgement?

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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby UnaStamus on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:30 pm

Actually getting an indictment for stalking in MN is pretty difficult and requires a lot of documentation and supporting evidence. Convictions are just as difficult. The amount of work it takes to get to the point where someone is being charged for stalking is immense. I know of cases where forensic computer analysts were used for extensive investigations over numerous months just to get a misdemeanor charge.
Point being, for this to apply to you, you are no doubt a stalker and you shouldn't have a gun. I don't think people fully grasp how jacked up stalkers are, and how they're all basically mentally ill to some degree. You can lose guns for a misdemeanor domestic violence charge or protection order violation under 518B, so it's not that egregious that you could lose your guns for being a convicted stalker. Stalking isn't accidentally running into your Ex at Target or stopping by your baby mama's house to pick up toys that the kid left there. Stalking is wacked-out nut jobs hacking into computers and installing hidden cameras in the victim's house, and literally following the victim day and night. It's seriously bat-sh*t crazy behavior that warrants not having access to guns. And possible euthanasia.
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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby farmerj on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:03 pm

And this is only going to be added to the lautenberg and other laws where its as simple as a woman saying, "I'm afraid of him." Without actual physical evidence.

Care to share you departments actual policy on dv situations. Hell, I've had my kids taken from me by a deputy because I refused to answer the phone after my ex called me 20 times in one hour.

These laws are wacked bull ****. Yes, 30-40 years ago the dv scene was the other extreme, it was an unspoken taboo subject, today it's gone to the other extreme with items like this and others.
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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby UnaStamus on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:33 pm

IV. PROCEDURES / RULES / REGULATIONS

A. Domestic Abuse – Preliminary Investigation (03/14/12)

In the event a domestic 911 call is cancelled officers shall respond to the location and check welfare. (03/14/12)
Officers shall attempt to determine the Primary Aggressor in a domestic assault.
Arrests for domestic abuse, based on probable cause, are expected if any of the following circumstances exist:
Signs of injury or impairment;
Dangerous weapon involved;
Alleged assault - no signs of injury;
Victim alleges to be in fear of immediate bodily harm;
Terroristic threats (Minn. Stat. §609.713 sub.1) (07/01/95) (03/14/12);
Criminal sexual conduct (refer to Minn. Stat. §609.342, 609.343, 609.344, 609.345) (07/01/95) (03/14/12)
Pursuant to Minnesota State Statute 629.341, a police officer may arrest a person without a warrant, even in the person’s own residence, if the officer has probable cause to believe that in the preceding 24 hours a domestic assault occurred. An officer may make an arrest for a misdemeanor domestic assault even if the assault did not occur in their presence.
An officer may not issue a citation in lieu of arrest and detention for a defendant charged with harassment, domestic abuse, violation of an order for protection, or violation of a domestic abuse no contact order. See Minnesota State Statute 629.72, subd. 1(a).
When applicable, officers shall follow the Misdemeanor Domestic Assault Response Protocol.
Officers shall check the PC Felony Enhanced List on all domestic calls including cases where the suspect is gone on arrival (GOA). Failure to do so will result in a notification to the officer’s commander.

B. Domestic Abuse – Misdemeanor Domestic Assault Response Protocol (03/14/12)

The Police Department has adopted the following protocol for patrol officers responding to adult arrest and suspect cases for the following offenses:
misdemeanor domestic assault;
misdemeanor violation of an Order for Protection;
misdemeanor violation of a Domestic Abuse No Contact Order;
misdemeanor violation of a harassment/restraining order, if the parties listed in the order are family or household members; and
gross misdemeanor interference with an emergency call.
As part of this protocol, patrol officers shall complete the following preliminary investigative tasks when responding to any calls as described above:
Check for existence of Order for Protection or Domestic Abuse No Contact Order on every domestic related 911 call.
Ask victim if suspect or arrestee has access to any firearms or ammunition or if there are any in the home.
If victim indicates yes, ask victim if she has any safety concerns. Document responses in the report.
ii. If the victim has safety concerns, officers may property inventory the firearms or ammunition for safe keeping.
Obtain a squad video Mirandized Scales statement from suspect or arrestee. Document results of the interview in the CAPRS report.
Obtain a signed medical release with shaded areas completed from victim if victim is seeking medical treatment.
Ask victim to complete domestic violence victim’s supplement. Property inventory supplement on completion.
Document in CAPRs report the victim’s answers to risk assessment questions listed on domestic violence victim’s supplement and ask any follow-up questions.
Take photographs. Examples of things to photograph include, but are not limited to: the arrestee; victim; injuries; scene, including any damaged property; and the arrestee in an Order for Protection or Domestic Abuse No Contact Order case at a prohibited address.
Collect any physical evidence and property inventory it.
Obtain contact information from witnesses to the incident including name, address, and phone number.
Question witnesses regarding the incident.
If suspect is gone on arrival, remind victim to call police if suspect returns within 24 hours of the incident.
Inform victim of domestic violence resources on blue card and call the Council on Crime & Justice 24-Hour Victim Hotline at 612-340-5400 to inform them of incident.
Check the PC Enhanced Felony List. Follow the instructions pertaining to the arrested party or suspect if they are on the list and add the additional charge listed.

C. Arrests for Violation of Domestic Abuse No Contact Order (12/19/91) (03/14/12)

Officers shall verify the existence of the Domestic Abuse No Contact Order. (03/14/12)
If the suspect or the victim does not have a valid copy of the Domestic Abuse No Contact Order, the existence of the court order may be verified by contacting the Hennepin County Jail Records Unit 612-596-8080. (03/14/12)
If no telephone is available to the officer, the officer may ask the MECC (Channel 7) for assistance.
Domestic Abuse No Contact Orders are stored in the same database as Orders for Protection, and can be verified by following the procedures described in 7.314.01 Order for Protection – Short Form Notification. (03/14/12)
If an officer determines an individual is in violation of a Domestic Abuse No Contact Order, an arrest shall be made. (03/14/12)
Officers shall complete a CAPRS report and supplement entitled “Violation of a Domestic Abuse No Contact Order” (VDNCO). Include the Hennepin County Jail SILs number (HCJ's computer ID# of the arrestee) and the original charge which the arrestee had been previously booked on and released. (03/14/12)

D. Domestic Abuse and Domestic Violence – Reporting Requirements (03/14/12)

In all cases of domestic violence or alleged acts of domestic abuse, a CAPRS report and supplement shall be completed immediately. (03/14/12)
If no arrest is made, the supplement shall clearly show sufficient reasons for not making the arrest. (12/10/2004) (03/14/12)
Officers shall notify the Council on Crime and Justice 24-Hour Victim Hotline at (612) 340-5400 whenever completing a CAPRS report for: (04/17/91) (10/21/93) (05/18/99) (03/14/12)
domestic abuse;
violation of order of protection;
violation of harassment restraining order; or
violation of domestic abuse no contact orders.


The problem is state laws mandating arrest out of fear and harm, with litigation and major penalties against agencies and officers that don't do things correctly. It's generally considered best practice to arrest and let the attorneys figure it out and deny charges, provided that what is being said makes sense and there is sufficient information available.

I tell people that any time they have the slightest hint of domestic discord with their partner and police get involved, that person needs to immediately end the relationship and run like hell. That, and get court papers filed for child custody and/or property. Fortunately, there are lawyers that specialize in this area (however unfortunate it is that we have to have "specialty" in this arena in the first place...) and you can wind up getting legal recourse through that avenue. The major problem happens when you are dealing with agencies and officers/deputies that all get different directives based on what their county attorney's office tells them to do. Then you get officers and deputies in smaller jurisdictions who have no training and don't have a clue what they're doing, except for what they were taught by their training officer, who also was ignorant to proper procedure.

Then you get issues where agencies are more likely to punish officers for NOT arresting than for arresting and making mistakes. However, in the end we're talking about stalking and not domestic assault, and stalking is far more difficult to adjudicate.
Last edited by UnaStamus on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby farmerj on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:41 pm

Interesting that even your department policy is baised specifically in who you are to ask.

"Ask if SHE has any concerns."
Written under the presumption that the male is already the aggressor before you've even arrived.

I have copies of letters from city attorney's who refused to push charges on my ex because it was a woman attorney looking to file charges against a woman.

To say the system is biased against men is a slight understatement.

Is this about me, hell no. It's about a system that is really jacked up. Unfortunately for me, it's from first hand experience.

As to stalking vs domestic violence, its a progression. My ex finally got pushed to back off because of her abuse of the system. I had to actually threaten the sheriff and county attorney with charges of incompetence because of how they were handling things. Harassment and even comments of stalking were parts of the final issues for what she was doing.

These laws Klobuchar and others are pushing are bull ****. Added to the dv policies as it is, things are only headed further south.
Last edited by farmerj on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Accused of "Stalking" who gets your guns?

Postby UnaStamus on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:44 pm

I am unable to disagree with that.
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