shtf? MOA attack?

[farmerj]

I really don't care if you are offended or not.

No one, but NO ONE is going to rummage through my belongings without a warrant or probable cause. It is people such as yourself kowtowing to every whim of the powers that be that the rest of us are pissed off.

Yeah, it's getting a bit old to hear, but it's becoming EVER more true....

One thing that stands out in ALL of my anti-terrorism training is that terrorists win by forcing their enemy to succumb and submit to loose their freedoms. And in that fact, we have lost to Al Qaida and ISIS already. When people stand up and push back, THEN and only then will we as American's again be free. In the mean time, we allow our elected officials whittle away our rights ever more, allowing the very evil we don't want to win, Win.

If that "tone" bothers you, then pick up a rifle and stand the line. Because I have, I will and am more than willing to do it again if I have to. But I will NOT sacrifice my freedom or that of ANY family member for your safety or that of anyone else's

[Grayskies]

Mall cops, bouncers and private security guards are not cops. They cannot give you a citation or arrest you.

Yes they can arrest you, it is called a citizens arrest, they can even use force to do it, including lethal force.

Also 9/11, we lost that, and I am pretty sure most everything after. It is like a Hydra cut off one head and and two grow back in its place.

[Hmac]

Mall cops, bouncers and private security guards are not cops. They cannot give you a citation or arrest you.

Yes they can arrest you, it is called a citizens arrest, they can even use force to do it, including lethal force.

They can use lethal force, huh?

[Grayskies]

Mall cops, bouncers and private security guards are not cops. They cannot give you a citation or arrest you.

Yes they can arrest you, it is called a citizens arrest, they can even use force to do it, including lethal force.

They can use lethal force, huh?

You should know this:

Thug pistol whips gramdma in south mpls cub parking lot, Permit holder gives chase (attempting to make a citizens arrest), thug pulls gun, permit holder ends thug. It was discussed here.

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=25631

And

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2563

[farmerj]

Mall cops, bouncers and private security guards are not cops. They cannot give you a citation or arrest you.

Yes they can arrest you, it is called a citizens arrest, they can even use force to do it, including lethal force.

Also 9/11, we lost that, and I am pretty sure most everything after. It is like a Hydra cut off one head and and two grow back in its place.

They have no more authority than you or I or anyone else does who is not a post certified officer.

[mrp]

You should know this:

Thug pistol whips gramdma in south mpls cub parking lot, Permit holder gives chase (attempting to make a citizens arrest), thug pulls gun, permit holder ends thug.

I hope you're not being serious. The lethal force was not allowable for the citizens arrest, but because the perp pulled a gun on him. Rothman put it nicely in a Star Trib article:

Andrew Rothman, a Twin Cities firearms trainer and vice president of the Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, said Friday that if the events unfolded as the armed citizen described, "the permit holder acted appropriately. Chasing the mugger to recover the purse or to effect a citizen's arrest is permitted by law."

And, if Evanovich "then escalated by pointing and/or shooting at the good Samaritan, the good Samaritan would have been completely justified in shooting," Rothman said.

[Holland&Holland]

No one, but NO ONE is going to rummage through my belongings without a warrant or probable cause. It is people such as yourself kowtowing to every whim of the powers that be that the rest of us are pissed off.

So you obviously never fly commercial then.

[farmerj]

No one, but NO ONE is going to rummage through my belongings without a warrant or probable cause. It is people such as yourself kowtowing to every whim of the powers that be that the rest of us are pissed off.

So you obviously never fly commercial then.

I have flown 4 times since 9/11. The only time I have been rummaged through is when returning from ft drumm on military orders. Four of us had to completely dump our duffles while people matching those on the planes where simply passed through.

It is disgusting what this country has become.

[Lumpy]

I'm not so sure the MoA cares so much about permit holders; more likely they're afraid that if they allow carry, too many hoplophobes will complain or boycott the mall. I'm reminded of an old quote about what Hollywood's response would be to a scandal of the time:

"Whatever will bring in the most money will happen," Mrs. Glyn replied.

[jshuberg]

Mall cops, bouncers and private security guards are not cops. They cannot give you a citation or arrest you.

Yes they can arrest you, it is called a citizens arrest, they can even use force to do it, including lethal force.

That's incorrect. While sworn peace officers can utilize deadly force to effect an arrest, in accordance with MN 609.066, private individuals cannot.

If a justified self defense or defense of dwelling shooting resulted in an injured bad guy, after the threat has been eliminated you could place him under private arrest.

However, if you see someone commit a crime, you cannot escalate the level of violence to deadly force to effect an arrest. You can only use reasonable (non-lethal) force to effect an arrest. If the bad guy you are trying to arrest escalates the situation to lethal force, the duty to retreat in a self defense encounter applies. If a private person pursues a suspect, or fails to retreat from the violence, he has committed a crime.

There is no statuary authority or case law that allows a private person to utilize deadly force to effect an arrest. Only in self defense and defense of dwelling is deadly force authorized, within the limits set forth in case law.

The situation with Evonovich (sp?) was that the permit holder was unaware the situation had escalated to lethal force. The "Good Samaritan" witnessed a mugging from his car, called 911 and followed Evonovich into an alley in his car to let the police know which way he ran. At no point was the Samaritan involved in a deadly force encounter until Evonovich popped out from behind a dumpster at pointed a gun at the Samaritan. The Samaritan didn't try to arrest Evonovich, he shot him dead in self defense the moment that deadly force was introduced.

The Good Samaritan was not indicted. There is no case law that resulted from this incident. It was entirely the decision of the country prosecutor that he acted within the law.

To use this incident as evidence that a private person can utilize deadly force to effect an arrest is a completely wrong conclusion to make.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[usnret]

I didn't know we had so many lawyers as members on this board!

[Grayskies]

Mall cops, bouncers and private security guards are not cops. They cannot give you a citation or arrest you.

Yes they can arrest you, it is called a citizens arrest, they can even use force to do it, including lethal force.

That's incorrect. While sworn peace officers can utilize deadly force to effect an arrest, in accordance with MN 609.066, private individuals cannot.

If a justified self defense or defense of dwelling shooting resulted in an injured bad guy, after the threat has been eliminated you could place him under private arrest.

However, if you see someone commit a crime, you cannot escalate the level of violence to deadly force to effect an arrest. You can only use reasonable (non-lethal) force to effect an arrest. If the bad guy you are trying to arrest escalates the situation to lethal force, the duty to retreat in a self defense encounter applies. If a private person pursues a suspect, or fails to retreat from the violence, he has committed a crime.

There is no statuary authority or case law that allows a private person to utilize deadly force to effect an arrest. Only in self defense and defense of dwelling is deadly force authorized, within the limits set forth in case law.

The situation with Evonovich (sp?) was that the permit holder was unaware the situation had escalated to lethal force. The "Good Samaritan" witnessed a mugging from his car, called 911 and followed Evonovich into an alley in his car to let the police know which way he ran. At no point was the Samaritan involved in a deadly force encounter until Evonovich popped out from behind a dumpster at pointed a gun at the Samaritan. The Samaritan didn't try to arrest Evonovich, he shot him dead in self defense the moment that deadly force was introduced.

The Good Samaritan was not indicted. There is no case law that resulted from this incident. It was entirely the decision of the country prosecutor that he acted within the law.

To use this incident as evidence that a private person can utilize deadly force to effect an arrest is a completely wrong conclusion to make.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Distiction with out a difference.

[Grayskies]

I didn't know we had so many lawyers as members on this board!

This ^^

[jshuberg]

I'm not a lawyer. I'm a MADFI certified carry instructor. The statutes and case law that establishes the circumstances where lethal force is authorized by state law is well known. It doesn't take a lawyer to understand and explain it.

If you believe I'm wrong, please cite the statute/case law that establishes that performing a private arrest is a justified use of deadly force.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hmac]

Yes they can arrest you, it is called a citizens arrest, they can even use force to do it, including lethal force.

They can use lethal force, huh?

You should know this:

Thug pistol whips gramdma in south mpls cub parking lot, Permit holder gives chase (attempting to make a citizens arrest), thug pulls gun, permit holder ends thug. It was discussed here.

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=25631

And

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2563

Seriously? You think that's the same thing?