My Proposal for a "Well-Regulated Militia"

[xd ED]

Colonel Eddie... Haven't heard that name in a long while. As I recall he was prohibited from possessing firearms. Probably got himself a blog these days.

ETA: Corrected Auto Corrections

[perotter]

Funny? Funny how? Some of the finest men and women in the state serve in the MNANG.

OTOH, I remember back in the 80's there was a guy who called himself Colonel Eddie who ran the "Minnesota Militia". Maybe you should look him up.

While it is a fine and needed organization, the National Guard isn't a militia. It is organized under the part of the US Constitution that allows for a standing army. The US Supreme Court directly ruled on that in Perpich v. DOD.

Those of us who live here in Minnesota have the pleasure of having a former governor who was the last governor who insisted that it was a militia and took the DOD to court on the issue. He lost.

[perotter]

So how would this get started. Heck, I will volunteer in a heart beat!

Under current state law, there is a good chance that you are already in the reserve militia that the governor can activate when desired. The law is all able bodied persons 17 thru 64 years old.

The law the Lumpy proposed is one, as far as I can tell, that would provide for the arming and some minimum training. It would provide for the a more rapid muster of the current reserve militia if arm were needed for the reason it was call up. Also, it would protect the RKBA from Federal gun control laws and all courts. The US Supreme court directly ruled that no court has jurisdiction over a states militia laws.

A law to have an active militia that is organized could or would include in part what I think Lumpy has proposed. FWIW, I'd like to see the state properly revitalize the militia for modern times.

[Bearcatrp]

I guess things have changed since desert storm. Bunch of whiners when we deployed. Since they have deployed allot of them to Iraq and Afghanistan, they got back up to standards than the weekend worrier they used to be. As was posted above, cannot use the NG as they fall under federal orders when needed. Texas and a few other states have actual militia for the state it's self. Not greatly organized but it's there. I would be afraid to ask some top official on how or if it can be done without getting my arse locked up for trying to organize something like this. The idiots are paranoid enough about the populous. Will have to do some Google fu and see what it brings up.
So who was this colonel Eddie? Never heard of him?

[Lumpy]

So how would this get started. Heck, I will volunteer in a heart beat!

Under current state law, there is a good chance that you are already in the reserve militia that the governor can activate when desired. The law is all able bodied persons 17 thru 64 years old.

The law the Lumpy proposed is one, as far as I can tell, that would provide for the arming and some minimum training. It would provide for the a more rapid muster of the current reserve militia if arm were needed for the reason it was call up. Also, it would protect the RKBA from Federal gun control laws and all courts. The US Supreme court directly ruled that no court has jurisdiction over a states militia laws.

A law to have an active militia that is organized could or would include in part what I think Lumpy has proposed. FWIW, I'd like to see the state properly revitalize the militia for modern times.

It would do that too; I mainly had two purposes in mind: first, to shut up the anti's who claim that the Second Amendment is dependent on the "well-regulated militia" phrase, and that "permitting" people to own weapons without training or oversight is folly. Second, to enshrine the principle that owning weapons is a RIGHT by phrasing the entire proposal not as a requirement for gun ownership but as a public duty, like jury duty, for those who happen to have guns. If it were a statute, it would include a subdivision explicitly saying something like "no provision of this Act shall in any manner be construed to deny the right of persons to the possession and carrying of firearms"

[Lumpy]

I guess things have changed since desert storm. Bunch of whiners when we deployed. Since they have deployed allot of them to Iraq and Afghanistan, they got back up to standards than the weekend worrier they used to be. As was posted above, cannot use the NG as they fall under federal orders when needed. Texas and a few other states have actual militia for the state it's self. Not greatly organized but it's there. I would be afraid to ask some top official on how or if it can be done without getting my arse locked up for trying to organize something like this. The idiots are paranoid enough about the populous. Will have to do some Google fu and see what it brings up.
So who was this colonel Eddie? Never heard of him?

The legal phrase is "armed association":

624.61 ARMED ASSOCIATION.
It shall not be lawful for any body of persons, other than the National Guard, troops of the United States and, with the consent of the governor, sons and daughters of veterans and cadets of educational institutions where military science is taught, to associate themselves together as a military company with arms, but members of social and benevolent organizations are not prohibited from wearing swords. Any violation of this section shall be a misdemeanor.

Almost every state in the nation has a similar law, and the Supreme Court upheld such laws all the way back to Presser v. Illinois 1886. Although, that ruling was primarily that the 14th Amendment's Privileges and Immunities clause didn't give the Federal government the authority to override state laws; a principle that was tossed out in the 1950s. Perhaps it's time for another look?

[perotter]

The following is S.B. 247 that was introduced to in 2013 that both would have changed some of that state militia law and provided for arming of the militiamen of that state. I highlight the part that provided for arming the militiamen.

This law would have marked paid on all Federal gun control laws.

TO AMEND THE CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1976, BY ADDING SECTION 25-1-80 SO AS TO PROVIDE FOR THE DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE SOUTH CAROLINA UNORGANIZED MILITIA.

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of South Carolina:

SECTION 1. Article 1, Chapter 1, Title 25 of the 1976 Code is amended by adding:

"Section 25-1-80. (A) Pursuant to the provisions of Section 25-1-60, an able-bodied citizen of this State who is over seventeen years of age and can legally purchase a firearm is deemed a member of the South Carolina Unorganized Militia, unless he is already a member of the National Guard or the organized militia not in National Guard service.

(B) The unorganized militia will be under the supervision of the Governor, as Commander-in-Chief, and the Adjutant General and shall be regulated through the actions of the General Assembly.

(C) The powers and duties of the South Carolina Unorganized Militia include:

(1) The militia may be ordered to active duty pursuant to the provisions of Section 25-1-1890.

(2) A militia member, at his own expense, shall have the right to possess and keep all arms that could be legally acquired or possessed by a South Carolina citizen as of December 31, 2012. This includes shouldered rifles and shotguns, handguns, clips, magazines, and all components.

(3) The unorganized militia may not fall under any law or regulation or jurisdiction of any person or entity outside of South Carolina.

(4) A member may resign at any time from the unorganized militia, at which time he will resume his civilian status."

SECTION 2. This act takes effect upon approval by the Governor.

[perotter]

I guess things have changed since desert storm. Bunch of whiners when we deployed. Since they have deployed allot of them to Iraq and Afghanistan, they got back up to standards than the weekend worrier they used to be. As was posted above, cannot use the NG as they fall under federal orders when needed. Texas and a few other states have actual militia for the state it's self. Not greatly organized but it's there. I would be afraid to ask some top official on how or if it can be done without getting my arse locked up for trying to organize something like this. The idiots are paranoid enough about the populous. Will have to do some Google fu and see what it brings up.
So who was this colonel Eddie? Never heard of him?

The legal phrase is "armed association":

624.61 ARMED ASSOCIATION.
It shall not be lawful for any body of persons, other than the National Guard, troops of the United States and, with the consent of the governor, sons and daughters of veterans and cadets of educational institutions where military science is taught, to associate themselves together as a military company with arms, but members of social and benevolent organizations are not prohibited from wearing swords. Any violation of this section shall be a misdemeanor.

Almost every state in the nation has a similar law, and the Supreme Court upheld such laws all the way back to Presser v. Illinois 1886. Although, that ruling was primarily that the 14th Amendment's Privileges and Immunities clause didn't give the Federal government the authority to override state laws; a principle that was tossed out in the 1950s. Perhaps it's time for another look?

In 2008 the Federal DOJ stated that such groups are legal nation wide. There has been, to my knowledge, no court case on this. As militias existed before state militias, likely the people have full power to organize into militia group in the absence of there being an organized state militia for them to join. There was a non Federal court ruling in the late 1800's that ruled that a state has to have a militia open to letting everyone join so individuals could do their militia duty.

At least one very recent DOD report stated that many of these provisional groups into state militia. I'm not against such groups, but would prefer to have an active state that didn't limit its size.

[perotter]

What are you guys thinking? Are you interested at looking at a law that only provides for arming Minnesota's militiamen?
Or do you want to look into a law that creates a modern state militia that also provides for that arming? Or should we bounce both around a bit?

If nothing else, we would help encourage and give few ideas to those in other states to get such a law and/or a militia in their state. This would help in our getting one.

We will at some point in the next few years get a state militia. We might at least to get one that provides for our needs and just the needs of others.

FWIW. The current name for the now inactive state militia is Minnesota State Guard.

[xd ED]

I guess things have changed since desert storm. Bunch of whiners when we deployed. Since they have deployed allot of them to Iraq and Afghanistan, they got back up to standards than the weekend worrier they used to be. As was posted above, cannot use the NG as they fall under federal orders when needed. Texas and a few other states have actual militia for the state it's self. Not greatly organized but it's there. I would be afraid to ask some top official on how or if it can be done without getting my arse locked up for trying to organize something like this. The idiots are paranoid enough about the populous. Will have to do some Google fu and see what it brings up.
So who was this colonel Eddie? Never heard of him?

The interweb does a mobius (pronounced: mo BS)

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11577&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p120208

[Bearcatrp]

The current name for the now inactive state militia is Minnesota State Guard.

Guess my next question is how/why is it inactive?

[perotter]

The current name for the now inactive state militia is Minnesota State Guard.

Guess my next question is how/why is it inactive?

I think I might have a copy of what the law was back in the 1940's when it was active. I'd would have to look at it to see if the law was changed so that it was up to the governor solely to decide if we have one as it is currently. Do you want me to look into that?

I'd have to guess that it was decided that it wasn't needed after WW2. It was deactivated in 1948 shortly after it was used to quell a strike at some meat packers. That might have been part of the reason.

FWIW.
Based on my analyses of last years report by the DOD Inspector General, no state meets what the DOD wants state defense forces to be. The DOD has been pushing a little more each year to strengthen them and have more states with them. See the current Army FM about assisting civil government written in 2010 for one easy to find source that says the Army would rather a state use a state defense force instead of the National Guard.

There are several other documents/reports in dtic that also show this. One will find that 20 years ago anything about militias was all negative, but for the last number of years it has all been positive. To the point of having the militia responsible for the land defense of 48 states. I assume some of the reasons being the threat level, cost and public image.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Militia's have a positive image in this state? ... Dream on!

What exactly are you guys looking for? You pooh pooh the thought of joining the NG, do you really think any state run body would be set up or run any differently?
ETA: if you think a state run militia can't be federalized, I suggest you read Section 2 Article 2 of the Constitution.

You guys could set up or join someone's private militia, but prepare for the annul probing you'll get from DHS no matter how innocent or honorable your intentions are.

Lastly, for those interested. Colonel Eddie was the leader of the "Minnesota Militia", who probably realistically had no more than 5 or 10 members. He was the epitome of the stereotypical dirtbag antisocial survivalist, and the news media would run to interview him whenever they wanted to reinforce a negative stereotype of all gun owners.

[Bearcatrp]

Can't join the NG. Am retired military. NG falls under the federal government in time if crisis. Constitution does state the president has control of state militia too in time of war. Without the state government behind doing a state militia (not NG), no way in hell could folks do it on there own without being labeled gangs, enemy of the state, etc.. Time to close this thread before we state getting visits from the ******** in the black vans.

[yukonjasper]

There are silent black helicopters circling over my house. .......