Ron Paul wins GOP debate last night

[rucker]

It is bad to carry even a good thing too far.
Even concerning things such as religion, life, and moral lessons,
talking too much will bring harm. - Yamamoto Tsunetomo

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Do you know who has the mosts posts on this forum?

[Aquaholic]

BURN! Hahahaha!

[DeanC]

PWN3D!

[joelr]

It is bad to carry even a good thing too far.
Even concerning things such as religion, life, and moral lessons,
talking too much will bring harm. - Yamamoto Tsunetomo

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"The reverse side also has a reverse side."

[Aquaholic]

It is bad to carry even a good thing too far.
Even concerning things such as religion, life, and moral lessons,
talking too much will bring harm. - Yamamoto Tsunetomo

.

"The reverse side also has a reverse side."

That's why I always try to be more accurate- for example, instead of saying: "Don't talk about me behind my back", I say "Don't talk about me in front of my back". When one is talking about you behind your back, it seems to me they must be talking about you to your face... thus, no problem!

Ok, that may not have applied to Joel's quote, but it reminded me of the above anyway.

[hammAR]

Elwood: what kind of music do you usually have here?
Claire: Oh we got both kinds. We got Country, and Western.


"We used to think that a hundred million monkeys at a hundred million keyboards eventually could produce the complete works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."



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[nyffman]

"Let a hundred flowers bloom; let a hundred schools of thought contend."

Exactly, some folks prefer as pets birds or fish. Others prefer dogs or cats. Still others may prefer pigs.

[cobb]

OK, lets get back on track.....

http://www.fred08.com/index.aspx

[nyffman]

OK, lets get back on track.....

http://www.fred08.com/index.aspx

You're right. I just figured, since it had gotten that far, might as well get some more licks in. Sorry. I'm done with this one.

[JFettig]

OK, lets get back on track.....

http://www.fred08.com/index.aspx

I think you mean http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

[cobb]

OK, lets get back on track.....

http://www.fred08.com/index.aspx

I think you mean http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Nope - http://www.fred08.com/index.aspx

[rucker]

OK, lets get back on track.....

http://www.fred08.com/index.aspx

I think you mean http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Nope - http://www.fred08.com/index.aspx

I never noticed that their websites are incredibly similar. Is there some kind of presidential candidate software that I am not aware of?

[JFettig]

Since you mentioned Fred, here is an interesting read.
Fred's voting record

Fred Thompson’s Anti-Gun Senate Record

The Conservatives Against Fred Thompson volunteers have compiled a list of proposals supported by Fred Dalton Thompson in the senate that include Gun Bans, confiscations and limitations to the free speech of Gun Rights Advocates. Dates and bill numbers are provided so this information can be easily verified. Summary:
1. Anti-gun terror bill (S. 735 )

On June 7, 1995, the Senate passed an anti-gun terror bill (S. 735) by a vote of 91-8. This version of the terror bill included: a BATF pay increase of $100 million; a provision authorizing “roving wiretaps” allowing government officials to wiretap one’s home if a person under investigation visits the home — even if one had no knowledge the person was a suspect; a weakening of the Posse Commitatus law to give the military more authority to get involved in law enforcement in certain circumstances; a grant of power to the FBI to conduct “fishing expeditions” and secure one’s financial and travel records in certain circumstances without any evidence one has committed a crime; and finally, the “Randy Weaver entrapment provision” which extends the statute of limitations for violations under the National Firearms Act of 1934 from three to five years. Thompson voted in favor of the bill.

2. Anti-gun terror bill — final passage

On April 17, 1996, the Senate passed the conference version of the anti-terrorism bill by a vote of 91-8. The final version of the bill (S. 735) contained several problems, including ones that will: order an “anti-hunter” rifle and ammo study; authorize a $40 million pay increase for the BATF (through the Treasury Department); potentially punish gun dealers (and individuals) for selling ammunition to someone they should have known would commit a violent crime; federalize many state crimes, thus tremendously increasing the scope and jurisdiction of the BATF; restrict the right of habeas corpus in such a way as to severely damage the ability of the courts to rescue honest gun owners who are unjustly incarcerated; allow the government to use “secret evidence” against certain individuals; remove protections against wiretapping wireless data; and require banks to freeze the assets of domestic groups in certain situations. Thompson once again voted in favor of the bill.

3. Taggants in gunpowder

On September 12, 1996, the Senate voted (57-42) to keep an anti-gun amendment off of the Treasury-Postal appropriations bill (H.R. 3756). The Kerry amendment — which Thompson voted for– would have made funds available for a study of tagging explosive materials, including black and smokeless powders (thus setting the stage for registering ammunition). The amendment also sought to further demonize firearms by selectively examining the misuse of firearms by criminals. The study would not examine the number of times firearms are used to save the lives of decent citizens.

4. Lautenberg Domestic Confiscation gun ban

On September 12, 1996, the Senate passed the Lautenberg gun ban as an amendment to the Treasury-Postal appropriations bill (H.R. 3756). The Lautenberg Domestic Confiscation Gun Ban disarms gun owners for small (misdemeanor) offenses in the home — “offenses” as slight as spanking a child or grabbing a spouse. This lifetime ban, in certain cases, can even be imposed without a trial by jury. It is also retroactive, so it does not matter if the offense occurred 20 years ago. Thompson voted in favor of the amendment.

5. Free Speech restrictions

On October 7, 1997, the Senate defeated an “Incumbent Protection Bill” (S. 25) which would have resulted in the government regulation of GOA’s newsletters and other communications with its members, while expanding the relative political power of the liberal media and other anti-gun forces. Senators failed in their effort, 53 to 47, to shut down a filibuster of the bill that was ostensibly aimed at reforming campaign finance laws.

6. Smith “Anti-Brady” Amendment

On July 21, 1998, pro-gun Senator Bob Smith (R-NH) introduced an “Anti-Brady” amendment that passed by a vote of 69-31. The Smith amendment would prohibit the FBI from using Brady background checks to tax or register gun owners. Further, the amendment requires the “immediate destruction of all [gun buyer] information, in any form whatsoever.” Finally, if the FBI disregards this latter provision, the Smith language will allow private citizens to sue the agency and collect monetary damages, including attorney’s fees. Thompson, in keeping with his tendency to usually vote for expanded federal police power, voted against this limitation of FBI registration of gun owners.

7. Anti-gun Clinton judge appointment

On February 11, 1998, the Senate voted 67-28 to confirm Margaret Morrow to the Federal bench. GOA vigorously opposed this Clinton-appointed judge, as she has not only taken strident anti-gun positions, she has showed herself to be a gun control activist.

8. Anti-gun Surgeon General

Having nominated anti-gun David Satcher for Surgeon General, President Bill Clinton was forced to wait several months as debate raged over his controversial pick. But on February 10, 1998, the President finally realized victory. By a vote of 75-23, anti-gun Republicans teamed up with the Democrats to kill the filibuster over the Satcher nomination. Mr. Satcher was later confirmed by a vote of 63-35. Since the key vote was to end the filibuster, that is the one that was rated by GOA.

9. Ending the filibuster of a major anti-gun crime bill

On July 28, 1999, the Senate ended a filibuster led by Senator Bob Smith (I-NH) — a filibuster intended to keep anti-gun crime legislation from progressing any further. After the 77-22 vote, the Senate moved to send the language of the anti-gun Senate crime bill (S. 254) to a House-Senate conference committee. Thompson voted to break the pro-gun filibuster.

10. Young adult gun ban

The young adult gun ban could severely punish parents who allow their kids to even touch a so-called semi-automatic “assault weapon.” While the amendment allows for certain exemptions, there are some imponderable questions which NO senator could answer, but which a parent would have to answer in order to avoid incarceration. For example: What is a “semiautomatic assault weapon”? The definition, plus exemptions, takes up six pages of fine print in the U.S. Code. Second, a child can handle a banned semi-auto if he is in the “immediate and supervisory presence” of a parent or if he possess a written permission slip from the parent. But what happens when, during a target practice session, the parent walks to the car to retrieve his lunch and the juvenile is no longer in the parents “immediate” presence and does not have a permission slip? A parent can receive jail time for this infraction. The provision passed the Senate on May 13, 1999, with Thompson voting in the majority.

11. Adopting the “Gun Control Lite” strategy

On May 13, 1999, a majority of Senators — including Thompson — defeated a motion to table (or kill) an anti-gun amendment introduced by Senators Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Larry Craig (R-WY). This amendment was offered as an alternative to gun control proposals being pushed by Sen. Frank Lautenberg.
12. McCain’s Incumbent Protection (2000 version)

By 59 to 41, the Senate passed S. 27, to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act to include Incumbent Protection provisions. The bill severely curtails the ability of outside groups such as GOA to communicate the actions of incumbent politicians to members and supporters prior to an election.

13. Incumbent Protection (2002 failed filibuster)

This was the key vote in the Senate regarding the odious Incumbent Protection bill in 2002 (H.R. 2356). The legislation finally became law that year. As he had on previous occasions, Thompson voted in favor of the bill.

[Dick Unger]

More Swift Boat tactics. I wonder who pays for this one.

[joelr]

More Swift Boat tactics.

Depends, I suppose, on what you mean by "Swift Boat tactics." Most of the facts claimed appear to be checkable, and are likely to stand up, like most of the factual allegations by the SwiftVets. (Some of the speculation -- like Kerry writing his own medal recommendations -- haven't been verifiable, and at least some of those allegations seems a little fair-fetched, to me.)

One of them sounds strange to me -- Larry Craig, the NRA National Board member, sponsoring an anti-gun piece of legislation? It's almost enough to make me want to tap my foot . . . in irritation, honest.

If the facts are legitimate, they're legitimate to bring forward, even if the source turns out to be some Paul or Rudy campaign maskirovka. (Much more likely to be Paul, of course; he's got the legions of flaming spammers who have managed to get him locked out of much online polling.) And I say that as somebody who is hoping that Fred will be the Republican nominee; I think he's got the best chance of beating Hillary Clinton.

Of the candidates -- in both parties -- whose voting records are most consistent with their avowed beliefs, the top scores almost certainly go to Kucinich and Paul. Both are very consistent, I think; both are flaming nutbars, as well.