Peeing on our Collective couch

[Widge]

Thanks for the clarification. Sadly, I find now that I don't care other than to say that the more obvious target should be the actual Commander of the Unit during the time in question, since he/she should have known and presumably was required to sign off on such shenanigans (if, in fact, shenanigans did ensue) rather than some bureaucratic figurehead of a desk pilot.

Once the Unit Commander has been investigated, and if found culpable, THEN Mr. Campion should be pursued if he refuses to fall on his sword.

Of course I have no idea what history Mr. Camion and Mr. Rosenberg have together so whether that's a factor I neither know nor care.

[Pinnacle]

Hey, I'm in the same position as you are. Just another face in the crowd. But, my opinion that he is wrong to put himself out front and center on this, especially in the way he is going about it, is shared by others who are smarter, more articulate and more knowledgeable than I. If you accept the idea that he is currently identified as a well known advocate for 2A, you have to ask, is this a battle that he should be in? What is to be gained by the 2A community by this?

Should he be? Well, that question is moot. He is. Let me ask this in return. Do we have someone willing to be a contrasting voice?

What is to be gained? Dunno. There are those who would argue that any publicity is good publicity. I don't necessarily agree that it is good publicity. I also don't think the intent to harm the 2A community is there either...

I have been and always will be willing to be a contrasting voice to the drum-beat of "The unkempt toddler" / HOWEVER I am not qualified, nor purport to be qualified to play politics. I am just smart enough to know that whereas other people are convinced that they are superior because they know how to argue with everyone and swing a wild brush of accusation and well, confrontation.

It is called guilt by association and there have been people that have posed a counterpoint both quietly, and well not so quietly to his aggressive and well, nonsensical pursuit of the Police and the DPS, and OTHER MEMBERS OF THE 2A COMMUNITY for the purposes of "Amusement" and for no other noble cause than shameless self promotion at the great expense of ALL OF US.

Bad publicity is just that - BAD and in our case very detrimental. When you have someone out there that has been SO outspoken and in the manner in which he chooses to speak - it paints all in a negative way. Eventually, he goes after everyone that argues with him, or poses valid points to consider. You disagree with that guy and you have a fatwa issued.... (I am proud of my fatwa, and as long as I have one I know that I am doing the right thing and thinking the right way!)

Again, lets look at it this way - I never asked him to speak for me - his parody websites, aggressive persecution of another instructor for amusement, and his continued accusations of corruption all lead me to one conclusion - this guy is marching to the beat of HIS own drummer.

When you go and make enemies out of EVERYONE through wild accusation and slander, when the fight comes - don't expect people to have your back. Being a movement of one - well sort of doesn't work. Damaging people that would be willing to help go to the legislature, be active, and actually fight eloquently, and passionately to keep and expand our RIGHTS is a rare commdity - alienating everyone, and making us all look bad makes this a very tough argument.

Selling on negatives may work in the short term, but when there is a margin call, you have more than expended your leverage and turned your argument against you.

[Widge]

(snip)....all lead me to one conclusion - this guy is marching to the beat of HIS own drummer.

and he's a drumstick short as well.

[WWJD]

My new avatar says it all

Maybe a few E-Mails to Mr Campion, denying JR's claims to represent US!

[Pinnacle]

My new avatar says it all

Maybe a few E-Mails to Mr Campion, denying JR's claims to represent US!

Too late I am afraid.

Lets see just how bad he gets now - I am betting completely "Over the Top" oh, wait he already did that, what comes next?

[Mo_the_Mouse]

My new avatar says it all

Maybe a few E-Mails to Mr Campion, denying JR's claims to represent US!

Problem is, that claim is implied rather than literal. At least as far as I know. Which makes it extremely hard to refute.

[WWJD]

Poneer Press edirorial board wrote (Page 10B) Sunday Edition
"THREE CHEERS FOR OVERSIGHT"

Praising Campion.........MMM!

I put my faith in the editorial board, instead of some guy with an over rated blog and web site ego. IMO

[DeanC]

Well among Campion's problems (which have all been published in the papers before Joel wrote anything about it) are that after the newspapers outed the gang strike force's numerous oversight (theft?) problems, Campion announced that he was going to have to start an investigation into them real soon, like in maybe a week or so. Which led to copious shredding and removal of evidence from the GSF's HQ. At the same time, Campion had just finished helping prosecute a Minneapolis cop for letting a gang member know whether or not he was being or was about to be investigated... for tipping someone off about an upcoming investigation.

Joel is only the leading local 2A advocate if you choose to make him so. Personally, I don't think he is. I'd give the title to GOCRA and the group of people who fought the battle to get the shall issue permit system we have now. Joel is involved, but is by no means the leader. But he sure is getting a lot of play here. Sort of like how Letterman is getting a ratings boost just when he needs it by attacking Klondike Sarah.

Somebody needs to raise hell about the GSF antics. I don't see anyone else besides the paper doing it. Campion has already indicated he is not interested in any sort of friendship with permit holders.

Everybody's got their own peccadilloes in addition to their interest in permits to carry. Some guys sell additional tactical training, some guys sell bowling balls, some guys write science fiction, some guys are into being police watchdogs. Some guys are unable to separate these outside interests from the permit stuff. It is actually possible to disagree with people and still get along with them.

[WWJD]

Everybody's got their own peccadilloes in addition to their interest in permits to carry. Some guys sell additional tactical training, some guys sell bowling balls, some guys write science fiction, some guys are into being police watchdogs. Some guys are unable to separate these outside interests from the permit stuff. It is actually possible to disagree with people and still get along with them.

WE DO, for the most part here

But when the decenting point of view is quashed/censored, as in OZ, you end up with a concensus of like minded people, similar to Al Bores scientists.
(There is a technical term for what I described above, but I can't find it )

[Pat]

Not all publicity is good publicity. We don't need this sort of attention drawn to the RKBA, especially from those who purport to represent those interests...

be11d0b9-7870-417e-a556-1b41fe86d449_hmedium.jpg (17.54 KB) Viewed 2704 times

[Lastgunshop]

Campion has already indicated he is not interested in any sort of friendship with permit holders.

Why do you think, "Campion" is not interested in any friendship with permit holders? The 2 times I had to deal with him was a +. I will always say it best to have law enforcement on our side than not.

Campion could screw with us (certified instructors) if he wanted to. Why piss him or anyone else off.
Organization Certification Requirements - Minnesota Statutes 624.714, Subd. 2a. (d), provides that a person
qualifies as a certified instructor if the person is certified as a firearms instructor within the past five (5) years by an
organization or government entity that has been approved by the Department of Public Safety in accordance with
the department's standards.
To qualify for Department of Public Safety approval as an organization authorized to certify instructors, the
organization or government entity must meet and maintain the following requirements:
1) Register the business organization with the Minnesota Secretary of State’s Office and provide a
stamped copy of proof of filing to DPS (government entities excluded)
2) Maintain instructor records adequate to verify training
3) Maintain proficiency of instruction (including legal updates) and ensure the instructional practices and
integrity of instructors
4) Provide the curriculum used to train instructors that demonstrates that the certified instructors will be
able to teach the basic training requirements for applicants for permits to carry required by Minnesota
Statutes 624.714, subd. 2a.
5) Organizations must be approved by the Department of Public Safety every five (5) years



The above leaves lots of room to screw with us.

[Pat]

Ain't it great being thrown under the bus by one of our own? Oh thats right - he IS a movement of ONE. (his OWN words)

http://files1.mailboxdrive.com/freemp3s ... 907262.mp3

[Pinnacle]

... is only the leading local 2A advocate if you choose to make him so. Personally, I don't think he is. I'd give the title to GOCRA and the group of people who fought the battle to get the shall issue permit system we have now. Joel is involved, but is by no means the leader. But he sure is getting a lot of play here. Sort of like how Letterman is getting a ratings boost just when he needs it by attacking Klondike Sarah.

Everybody's got their own peccadilloes in addition to their interest in permits to carry. Some guys sell additional tactical training, some guys sell bowling balls, some guys write science fiction, some guys are into being police watchdogs. Some guys are unable to separate these outside interests from the permit stuff. It is actually possible to disagree with people and still get along with them[/u][/b].

Dean you know I have nothing but respect for you but I have to disagree with you a bit.
Seemingly this fellow has appointed himself and is a faction of one and is doing a lot of harm and will continue to do so regardless. Time for air and light to disinfect this situation.

And well, we tried that and, errr, ummmm normal adult behavior doesn't seem to work where you can disagree and still get along.... Doesn't work at least on his side.

[The_real_ozman]

And i bet the bearded guy takes the credit for Campion retiring next year?? I have heard word that this year will be his last as Head of the DPS. He is approaching the end of the line as he has been working for the D.P.S since 73 so he will be hitting the rule of 90 so he can retire <lol> The word out there is that this is his last year, and especially seeing as it is a Political appointment and he was picked by T.Paw 5 years ago and when we get a new governor we will get a new head of the D.P.S <lol> But i am sure people will claim victory to feed their ego and the ones of their blind followers.

[Pinnacle]

And i bet the bearded guy takes the credit for Campion retiring next year?? I have heard word that this year will be his last as Head of the DPS. He is approaching the end of the line as he has been working for the D.P.S since 73 so he will be hitting the rule of 90 so he can retire <lol> The word out there is that this is his last year, and especially seeing as it is a Political appointment and he was picked by T.Paw 5 years ago and when we get a new governor we will get a new head of the D.P.S <lol> But i am sure people will claim victory to feed their ego and the ones of their blind followers.

He may just break his own arm slapping himself on the back over that one.