Peeing on our Collective couch

[The_real_ozman]

And i bet the bearded guy takes the credit for Campion retiring next year?? I have heard word that this year will be his last as Head of the DPS. He is approaching the end of the line as he has been working for the D.P.S since 73 so he will be hitting the rule of 90 so he can retire <lol> The word out there is that this is his last year, and especially seeing as it is a Political appointment and he was picked by T.Paw 5 years ago and when we get a new governor we will get a new head of the D.P.S <lol> But i am sure people will claim victory to feed their ego and the ones of their blind followers.

He may just break his own arm slapping himself on the back over that one.

Thats the way it look like it is going <lol> He will claim he caused him to step down and take his nice pension And i bet he will piss and moan about the person who replaces him

[Pinnacle]

WHERE IS MY PARODY WEBSITE- I WANT MY NEW FATWA!!!!!!

[DeanC]

Why do you think, "Campion" is not interested in any friendship with permit holders?

Because of his lackadaisical attitude towards reciprocity. He hasn't fulfilled his lawful duties in past years and has taken it upon himself to redefine what the law means even when the author of the law pointed it out to him.

[Pinnacle]

Why do you think, "Campion" is not interested in any friendship with permit holders?

Because of his lackadaisical attitude towards reciprocity. He hasn't fulfilled his lawful duties in past years and has taken it upon himself to redefine what the law means even when the author of the law pointed it out to him.

The argument that I have seen presented is akin to debating how many greek gods can dance n the head of a pin. REGARDLESS OF CAMPIONS PERCEIVED LACKADAISICAL attitude toward reciprocity - the argument has nothing to do with anything other than making an enemy out of a very (did I mention VERY) powerful and well connected guy. If you run around pissing on everyone's couch - we are all going to have a wet arse.

The argument changed the minute he was granted one of The Unkempt toddlers nicknames. Calling a politician names is a sure way to redirect their efforts to IGNORING you when you yourself, or by proxy come back and ask for things later. Going after him justified or not for the GSF nonsense is NOT the fight to be in, and the argument is moot. Stay on topic and point with the discussion. The Reciprocity issue does not work when someone is out there slaying this guy over another issue all together.

The "BAd Cop no doughnut"Argument does not work na dis irrelevant considering all of the other behavior displayed - and especially when it has been displayed TOWARDS a MEMBER of the instructor community.

The definition of insanity is keeping on the same track and expecting another result. How is that working out?

[1911fan]

To those who weren't listening. Mr C has a lot of clout but he only acts with the guidance of his superior on policy matters. Is that clear enough? Reciprosity came down from above. He may have had the meeting, but he did not have the decision.

If you Tim doen't know about the reciprosity issue you are fooling yourself. Other issues are involved.

[DeanC]

To those who weren't listening. Mr C has a lot of clout but he only acts with the guidance of his superior on policy matters. Is that clear enough? Reciprosity came down from above. He may have had the meeting, but he did not have the decision.

If you Tim doen't know about the reciprosity issue you are fooling yourself. Other issues are involved.

Can't disagree with you there. A friend of mine buttonholed Pawlenty at a fundraiser in person about the issue and his response was mumble, mumble, mental health, mumble, mumble Virginia Tech, mumble, mumble, I gotta' go shake some more hands...

[Andrew Rothman]

REGARDLESS OF CAMPIONS PERCEIVED LACKADAISICAL attitude toward reciprocity - the argument has nothing to do with anything other than making an enemy out of a very (did I mention VERY) powerful and well connected guy. If you run around pissing on everyone's couch - we are all going to have a wet arse.

You're incredibly wrong about that. We worked for years -- YEARS -- within the system to try to get reciprocity fixed. We got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

Hey, you have a ton of law enforcement contacts... how did your lobbying efforts on this issue turn out?

[DeanC]

Pinnacle - you are correct there is more than one issue - reciprocity and the GSF eff up. It's hard to separate them for some of us because they involve the same guy.

On reciprocity, like I said above, he's not 100% to blame for the lack of action, but he is complicit and willing to not work very hard at finding more states that are substantially similar and to work on excuses for not doing so.

On the GSF, there was a big eff up on his watch. I don't think he was directly responsible, but because he tipped off the GSF of the impending investigation, it looks pretty bad for him. Because of his clay feet on reciprocity, it's hard not to feel a little schadenfreude on the GSF matters.

Now, if an instructor decides to criticize Campion on the GSF issue (which is in keeping with his history of past criticisms of other police matters) I don't have a big problem with that. It's clearly been one of his outside hobbies for some time. I don't think becoming an instructor requires you to check your other interests at the door.

If another instructor were to send flowers and candy to Campion or Landon Beard telling him to "hang in there" or "keep up the good work" I wouldn't have a big problem with that either. I might disagree, but that's alright.

It does get fuzzy though if he is wearing his instructor hat while engaging in these other hobbies. Or even his "head of a instructor certifying organization" hat. If I were an instructor, and I disagreed with his actions, I might start thinking about changing certifying organizations. I recall some people leaving one of the instructor organizations over some issue or another that was taken in the org's name without their consultation. If his actions are egregious enough, he won't have any more instructors under him.

I'm not even going to attempt to defend giving people cutesy nicknames or making parody websites. I'd hope, however, those who are targets of such shenanigans are good enough people to recognize them for what they are and ignore them. It shouldn't be hard if they are successful and powerful people.

[Pinnacle]

REGARDLESS OF CAMPIONS PERCEIVED LACKADAISICAL attitude toward reciprocity - the argument has nothing to do with anything other than making an enemy out of a very (did I mention VERY) powerful and well connected guy. If you run around pissing on everyone's couch - we are all going to have a wet arse.

You're incredibly wrong about that. We worked for years -- YEARS -- within the system to try to get reciprocity fixed. We got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

Hey, you have a ton of law enforcement contacts... how did your lobbying efforts on this issue turn out?

I told you in the very beginning that I am NOT and ACTIVIST BUT I know BS when I see it But while we are there - my efforts have had the same result as yours apparently - but in the process - I didn't piss on anyone's leg whereas those that may listen already had someone elses piss on them and a severe distaste for a certain someone that was closely associated with the "Cause."

You keep pissing on people that may help and well, WTF do you think is going to happen when you try to get their ear? Common sense pal. You INSULT and ATTACK everyone that is in a position to make a difference and well - what were you expecting? You all must think that these politicians (Commissioners, DA's, Reps, Police Chiefs, and well the Governor) DON'T talk to one another? If you are under that impression, you are sadly mistaken.

So clearly defaming someone after trying to be nice is the way to go. Oops my mistake. Dont even presume to excuse this behavior Andrew,There is absolutely NO excuse for it. It is a lot like burning the boats when you arrive in the new world isn't it? You can NEVER turn back. Furthermore don't even try to blame the lack of progress with the Commissioner of the DPS and the Governors office on me as I am not the one that purports to be summoned to meetings on such a High Level that I could not even comprehend. Remember that I am nothing more than a Doltish Doofis Doorkicker wannabe after all.

So after working for "YEARS" within the system - a direct hostile attack full of accusations of corruption is going to help the "Cause"? I think not. I see - give up asking nice and just go to the mattresses with a politician is going to work for you - surrender to the offend status? Yeah, that's a great course of action - that will ge t you what you want. You will be treated to the 2 year old with a tantrum status. IGNORE and think twice before making accommodations on the next go round. This argument and or line of reasoning does not hold water. Sorry - I think that you are also incredibly wrong in your thinking.

My involvement and assistance was not needed or wanted - so there you have it. That was made CRYSTAL Clear.

[westberg]

I'm glad that there are people within the 2A community willing to learn and know the issues, know the elected officials, can foresee the direction of pending bills and basically be the eyes and ears for the rest of us. But I and many more will not follow blindly and it should make reasonable sense. I'm also more then willing to help out where I can, by going to the capital and showing force by numbers.

I have a hard time seeing how attacking and making parody of someone helps the community as a whole. Andrew you made the following statement,

You're incredibly wrong about that. We worked for years -- YEARS -- within the system to try to get reciprocity fixed. We got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

which has not work, what is the next step then? Or is attaching Champion the next step and what is the expected outcome? I'm trying to understand all of the issues.

[Lastgunshop]

You're incredibly wrong about that. We worked for years -- YEARS -- within the system to try to get reciprocity fixed. We got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

So should we go and piss law enforcement off? Becuase we got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

[cobb]

You're incredibly wrong about that. We worked for years -- YEARS -- within the system to try to get reciprocity fixed. We got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

So should we go and piss law enforcement off? Becuase we got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

But, but, LEO's can legally lie to us...

[goalie]

You're incredibly wrong about that. We worked for years -- YEARS -- within the system to try to get reciprocity fixed. We got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

which has not work, what is the next step then? Or is attaching Champion the next step and what is the expected outcome? I'm trying to understand all of the issues.

I, too, would be interested in just what one reasonably intends to accomplish with such a strategy? I mean, it would appear that such behavior would be a last resort, something to be done when all else fails. If those willing to expend the time and energy to blog about (and, one could reasonably assume, piss off) said public official truly cared about results more than the process itself (and the self-perceived glory of being "the guy who wrote the book etc.. etc...etc...) one would assume that he/they had exhausted all "within the system" options to achieve their desired results.

That begs the questions: has anyone actually filed a lawsuit? Has anyone taken the time to ensure that they have proper legal standing to demonstrate legal injury due to the aforementioned lying, stonewalling, and ignoring? Is it reasonable to assume that, when the previous methods of interaction with the powers that be failed, somehow name-calling and insults on the internet WILL work in favor of more liberal reciprocity?????

If the answer to the last question is no, well, it says a whole lot about the person doing it. I personally think of myself as reasonable, and I fail to believe that the writings linked in this thread could possibly be productive. Then again, I sure as hell am not going to associate with Joel R either, as you can tell a whole lot, good or bad, about someone by who they associate with. The fact that he presents himself as a figurehead of any local pro-2nd Amendment issues pretty much precludes myself from becoming involved......

[Lastgunshop]

REGARDLESS OF CAMPIONS PERCEIVED LACKADAISICAL attitude toward reciprocity - the argument has nothing to do with anything other than making an enemy out of a very (did I mention VERY) powerful and well connected guy. If you run around pissing on everyone's couch - we are all going to have a wet arse.

You're incredibly wrong about that. We worked for years -- YEARS -- within the system to try to get reciprocity fixed. We got lied to, stonewalled, and ignored.

Hey, you have a ton of law enforcement contacts... how did your lobbying efforts on this issue turn out?

Andrew what states do you think we should had added to our state? Sofar we have Alaska,Arkansas,Kansas,KentuckyLouisiana,Michigan,Missouri,New Mexico,Nevada,Ohio,Oklahoma,Tennessee,Texas,Utah,Wyoming

,

[joelr]

... it isn't, of course, the point that **** "Pinnacle" ******* thinks he's making, but it's worth addressing -- in a more-read venue than here. I've saved all of the posts here -- wouldn't want them to vanish, and all -- and I think I'll get a round tuit.

Thanks, ****.


Warning issued, violation of Rule 3