Hypocrisy at the highest level.

View · by **grousemaster** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:49 pm

1. Pres. Obama ended up pledging some $150 million to add "police resources" to schools today in his orders, yet we've been told that's a stupid idea since the NRA mentioned it? Pres. Obama's children attend a school with 8 armed guards (aside from secret service) where other rich and famous folks send their kids, this school has always had 8 armed guards. Yet, it's ridiculous to think other kids would deserve that type of security?

2. White House spokesman Jay Carney lambasted the NRA this morning for using "children as a political pawn" on their latest commercial, and not 4 hours later the POTUS marches out children to stand with him while he delivers his speech?

3. The only thing mentioned that I believe would have any chance of slightly curving gun violence would be universal background checks, which I would support as a life NRA member. Although I stand to profit from this measure, so my opinion is sort of skewed

Aside from more secure schools, none of the other proposals will have much of an effect aside from hassling lawful gun owners.

If I hear one more person mention hunting along with gun control I'm gonna puke, the two are unrelated. Andrew Cuomo sounds like a moron saying "no one needs 10 bullets to kill a deer!!",

The 2nd amendment doesn't say "The right of the people to kill deer shall not be infringed"

View · by **Thunder71** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:54 pm

grousemaster wrote:The 2nd amendment doesn't say "The right of the people to kill deer shall not be infringed"

It's right next to the word muzzleloader.

View · by **jdege** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:59 pm

grousemaster wrote:3. The only thing mentioned that I believe would have any chance of slightly curving gun violence would be universal background checks, which I would support as a life NRA member.

I will absolutely oppose universal background checks, if they involve reporting the serial number of the firearm being transferred to any level of government.

View · by **grousemaster** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:05 pm

jdege wrote:
grousemaster wrote:3. The only thing mentioned that I believe would have any chance of slightly curving gun violence would be universal background checks, which I would support as a life NRA member.

I will absolutely oppose universal background checks, if they involve reporting the serial number of the firearm being transferred to any level of government.

As it stands now, FFL's don't report any serial numbers. I am assuming that wouldn't change.

View · by **Evad** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:22 pm

jdege wrote:
grousemaster wrote:3. The only thing mentioned that I believe would have any chance of slightly curving gun violence would be universal background checks, which I would support as a life NRA member.

I will absolutely oppose universal background checks, if they involve reporting the serial number of the firearm being transferred to any level of government.

I wouldn't mind a smartphone app (someone here mentioned it) or web portal where the number off a PTC or PTP is entered and returnd with "valid" or "invalid". No proof a sale happened, no description of what was sold if it was sold. I wouldn't mind proving I was legally ok to purchase. No "de facto registration" would happen that way.

View · by **EAJuggalo** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:25 pm

But FFL's record serial numbers in their book. If the "Universal Background Check" worked the same as the Permit to Purchase does in MN I wouldn't have a problem with it. If it's going to involve taking the firearm to a FFL and pay whatever charge they want to levy for the service then I have a huge problem with it. Even in the new NY statutes there is a $10 cap on running a NICS check.

View · by **rugersol** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:25 pm

Evad wrote:the number off a PTC or PTP is entered

I asked this, elsewhere, and never got a response ...

How is a PCT/PTP not otherwise "enough"?! ... with a DL to verify the face/name, why is more necessary?!

View · by **Evad** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:30 pm

rugersol wrote:
Evad wrote:the number off a PTC or PTP is entered

I asked this, elsewhere, and never got a response ...

How is a PCT/PTP not otherwise "enough"?! ... with a DL to verify the face/name, why is more necessary?!

They can be revoked, so checking status would be an additional step that can make people feel good.

View · by **rugersol** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:32 pm

Evad wrote:
rugersol wrote:
Evad wrote:the number off a PTC or PTP is entered

I asked this, elsewhere, and never got a response ...

How is a PCT/PTP not otherwise "enough"?! ... with a DL to verify the face/name, why is more necessary?!

They can be revoked, so checking status would be an additional step that can make people feel good.

Ok ... so you're talkin' what?! ... 50% of permit holders?!

Why even have a PTC?! ... if, at any point, it might otherwise be invalid?!

View · by **grousemaster** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:32 pm

rugersol wrote:
Evad wrote:the number off a PTC or PTP is entered

I asked this, elsewhere, and never got a response ...

How is a PCT/PTP not otherwise "enough"?! ... with a DL to verify the face/name, why is more necessary?!

PTC is enough. The number on the DL is the same as a PTC anyway. The Feds do not know if you bought a gun, and they definitely don't know which guns you have....even if you went through an FFL. Unless the ATF came and took all our log books and entered into a data base .....which would be a giant under taking

View · by **ex-LT** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:35 pm

grousemaster wrote:
jdege wrote:
grousemaster wrote:3. The only thing mentioned that I believe would have any chance of slightly curving gun violence would be universal background checks, which I would support as a life NRA member.

I will absolutely oppose universal background checks, if they involve reporting the serial number of the firearm being transferred to any level of government.

As it stands now, FFL's don't report any serial numbers. I am assuming that wouldn't change.

I wouldn't have a problem with the universal background check if they would open up the registry to private parties, but I saw a copy of the letter to FFLs this morning (ATF Open Letter to All FFLs), that indicates that the FFL has to take possession, and record the acquisition and disposition of the firearm in their records. Simply put, they're completely doing away with private party sales.

View · by **tt3** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:45 pm

Good luck with that...

ex-LT wrote:Simply put, they're completely doing away with LEGAL private party sales.

Fixed that.

View · by **xd ED** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:51 pm

grousemaster wrote:
jdege wrote:
grousemaster wrote:3. The only thing mentioned that I believe would have any chance of slightly curving gun violence would be universal background checks, which I would support as a life NRA member.

I will absolutely oppose universal background checks, if they involve reporting the serial number of the firearm being transferred to any level of government.

As it stands now, FFL's don't report any serial numbers. I am assuming that wouldn't change.

As things exist there is no need to prove you did a background check-the onus is on the FFL to prove he sold it properly. The only way I can conceive that proves a private seller has done a check would be to tie the gun ID to the NICS check/ buyer's name. Not For Me.

View · by **Evad** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:51 pm

rugersol wrote:
Why even have a PTC?! ... if, at any point, it might otherwise be invalid?!

I'm saying you could do things that get you in trouble and invalidate your own permit. I'm not saying there are masses of people holding invalid permits. I have NO idea what the statistics are, I am just saying I wouldn't mind that one step IF it kept private sales, and nothing was recorded like "rugersol purchased gunX on x/x/2013 with serial #xxxxxxx".

View · by **rugersol** on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:56 pm

Evad wrote:
rugersol wrote:
Why even have a PTC?! ... if, at any point, it might otherwise be invalid?!

I'm saying you could do things that get you in trouble and invalidate your own permit. I'm not saying there are masses of people holding invalid permits. I have NO idea what the statistics are, I am just saying I wouldn't mind that one step IF it kept private sales, and nothing was recorded like "rugersol purchased gunX on x/x/2013 with serial #xxxxxxx".

I understand.

My point is, by requiring a PTC, 99.9% of yer buyers are legit! ... far moreso than anyone with no PTC, right?!

If yer willin' to concede somethin', how 'bout we start with that?!

As it sets, today (and fer the couple years I've been around here), fer pistols/AR's, private sellers on this board ALWAYS require DL & PTC/PTP!

If the law were to change, where that would also be required for ANY firearm, how many law-abiding folks do ya suppose, would break that law? ... knowing, that at any point, any such buyer could most easily otherwise be an ATF agent?!