MNGunTalk.com

How will the Obama plan work? What tax rates can we raise to balance our current budget?

St. Olaf wrote:

Actually, my pension is already well-funded.

MNRMN wrote:

Mine isnt. how about I take some of yours, to make it "more equal"?

You've made some bad career choices, obviously.

You'll get your basic needs met......but only because people like me will see to it that the rich pay their fair share so you can get the help you need.

St. Olaf wrote:St. Olaf wrote:

Actually, my pension is already well-funded.

MNRMN wrote:

Mine isnt. how about I take some of yours, to make it "more equal"?

You've made some bad career choices, obviously.

You'll get your basic needs met......but only because people like me will see to it that the rich pay their fair share so you can get the help you need.

:flag:

my career and financial situation are fine. I was making a point, St. Brainiac. Like I said before, it is really easy to be generous with other peoples money. That doesnt make you ANY sort of saint.

St. Olaf wrote:

Any debate of Austerity vs Keynesian ecomomics is pointless because they both assume that it is the role of the government to create jobs. Austerity arguments are simply that the government can "create jobs" better by leaving capital in the marketplace, while Keynesian assumes that the goverment can be a good participant in the marketplace. Both of these are contrary to a view that the best government is a small government.

Since the theory that the best government is a small government is a Tea Party opinion, a minority opinion, a Fox News talking point and clearly extremist and simplistic--it simply doesn't hold any water as a theory.

Truth is, the best government is the right size to do the job and determining the right size is a little more complex than anybody on Fox News is going to have the capacity to figure out.

Interesting how you quoted almost an entire paragraph from me except the most important part: "Last I looked, 'creating jobs' wasn't in the enumerated powers of the Constitution."

The opinion that the best government is a small government is a historically accurate representation of the Anti-Federalists position, which if I remember my history correctly, Thomas Jefferson far pre-dates Fox News. As far as it "not holding any water", care to site references? There is quite a body of work in literature on "night-watchmen states", Clasical Liberalism, etc.

What exactly is the job of government? It is hard to determine the correct size when the liberal philosophy tends to be big enough to do everything, including banning a folded piece of metal with a spring.

Interesting how you quoted almost an entire paragraph from me except the most important part: "Last I looked, 'creating jobs' wasn't in the enumerated powers of the Constitution."

That's because it was actually the least important part.

Hyper-zealous Constitution worship is not my religion. It's too often used as an excuse for bad behavior.

St. Olaf wrote:

Interesting how you quoted almost an entire paragraph from me except the most important part: "Last I looked, 'creating jobs' wasn't in the enumerated powers of the Constitution."

That's because it was actually the least important part.

Hyper-zealous Constitution worship is not my religion. It's too often used as an excuse for bad behavior.

:flag:

yeah yeah. hyper zealous.

you know there is more than symbology in the swearing in oath of the president and other offices.

The opinion that the best government is a small government is a historically accurate representation of the Anti-Federalists position, which if I remember my history correctly, Thomas Jefferson far pre-dates Fox News.

May have made sense in the simple society of Jefferson.

Hasn't made sense for at least 150 years.

St. Olaf wrote:

Interesting how you quoted almost an entire paragraph from me except the most important part: "Last I looked, 'creating jobs' wasn't in the enumerated powers of the Constitution."

That's because it was actually the least important part.

Hyper-zealous Constitution worship is not my religion. It's too often used as an excuse for bad behavior.

Ah, so the contract between the people of the United States and their government is no longer relevant? Are you one of those "living breathing document" types?

If you're ok with contracts being modified at will, maybe we should just change the one associated with your pension. It'll be a minor change, like payable to me instead of you? It's just one word. I'm sure the original intent is no longer applicable to today's society. I mean, I'm obviously in need of it more than you.

St. Olaf wrote:

The opinion that the best government is a small government is a historically accurate representation of the Anti-Federalists position, which if I remember my history correctly, Thomas Jefferson far pre-dates Fox News.

May have made sense in the simple society of Jefferson.

Hasn't made sense for at least 150 years.

Yea, there's been no instances of over blown governments causing countries to collapse or millions to die over the past 150 years. Great point!

What exactly is the job of government? It is hard to determine the correct size when the liberal philosophy tends to be big enough to do everything, including banning a folded piece of metal with a spring.

It really IS a difficult question, although it should be framed as "how much larger" rather than "how small."

That's why we need a group that's smarter than the Tea Party to decide.

St. Olaf wrote: It's too often used as an excuse for bad behavior.

Good thing we have you here to set us straight... Err, legislate us straight.

Thats sarcasm, because I imagine you will miss that if I dont point it out.

St. Olaf wrote:

What exactly is the job of government? It is hard to determine the correct size when the liberal philosophy tends to be big enough to do everything, including banning a folded piece of metal with a spring.

It really IS a difficult question, although it should be framed as "how much larger" rather than "how small."

That's why we need a group that's smarter than the Tea Party to decide.

The Tea Party obsession continues. The lessons of big government/communism have been learned the hard way for far too many. Care to guess how many people were killed at the hands of their own government last century?

Ah, so the contract between the people of the United States and their government is no longer relevant? Are you one of those "living breathing document" types?

If you're ok with contracts being modified at will, maybe we should just change the one associated with your pension. It'll be a minor change, like payable to me instead of you? It's just one word. I'm sure the original intent is no longer applicable to today's society. I mean, I'm obviously in need of it more than you.

I said I don't worship the Constitution, not that it's no longer relevant.

And your pension problems are your own doing, but thanks to people like me you'll at least get your basic needs met (including food stamps and health care).

You should be thanking me.

St. Olaf wrote:

Ah, so the contract between the people of the United States and their government is no longer relevant? Are you one of those "living breathing document" types?

If you're ok with contracts being modified at will, maybe we should just change the one associated with your pension. It'll be a minor change, like payable to me instead of you? It's just one word. I'm sure the original intent is no longer applicable to today's society. I mean, I'm obviously in need of it more than you.

I said I don't worship the Constitution, not that it's no longer relevant.

And your pension problems are your own doing, but thanks to people like me you'll at least get your basic needs met (including food stamps and health care).

You should be thanking me.

So the money that gets redistributed from us to you, will then be distribute out again? How nice of you.

NMRMN wrote:

St. Olaf wrote: It's too often used as an excuse for bad behavior.

Good thing we have you here to set us straight... Err, legislate us straight.

Thats sarcasm, because I imagine you will miss that if I dont point it out.

I'm not here to legislate or set anyone straight.....just to offer a point of view that I noticed was missing.