SF 458 Passed committee...

[Contin]

Sen. Latz's bill, Sf 458, passed out of committe tonight along party line votes (5-3). Time to do everything to stop this in the senate.

[LarryP]

Any idea what the odds are passing the senate?

[BigBlue]

Senator Limmer stated in the committee meeting tonight that by his tally the bill does not have enough votes to pass. He asked why Latz would waste everyone's time with this mess instead of supporting something with wide appeal (Ortman's bill). He did a great job for us tonight, as did Ortman. And though Hall didn't speak up he was on our side throughout. Send them all thank-you notes!

BB

[xd9]

Another batch of letters going out in the morning,

[NMRMN]

Another batch of letters going out in the morning,

[xd9]

Made 3 phone calls this morning and sent 3 emails. From the response I received from my senator, it sounds like she has her mind made up and like Sen. Latz's bill. But what can I expect from a city (D).

[2in2out]

First of all, I think the supporters of SF458 need to be continuously reminded that they are on the losing side. And second, judging by what I've seen in the hearings, this is Latz's pride on the line. He's not going to back down, because his ego is on the line.

If anything, that's a reason to keep pushing. We need to make sure everyone else is against his bill.

[JK-linux]

Best outcome - SF458 fails on the floor since it doesn't have the votes; SF1359 (better than SF458, but still more regulation nonetheless) never comes up, and nothing gun-related "gets done" at all this year.

[XDM45]

Best outcome - SF458 fails on the floor since it doesn't have the votes; SF1359 (better than SF458, but still more regulation nonetheless) never comes up, and nothing gun-related "gets done" at all this year.

I think that would be bad, but not as bad as only SF458 passing.

In my opinion, what needs to happen i9s this:

1) SF458 and any other Gun Control bills need to fail and never stand a chance to become law.

2) HF1359 and any other pro-freedom bills need to pass into law - and here's why:
- First off, IANAL, so take that into account.... when something becomes law, it spiderwebs out and gets entangled in other laws, case law, trials, civil and criminal legislation, etc, so the more of that there is, the harder it is to undo.

- Secondly, the more pro-freedom laws we have on the books, the better. Think about that for a minute... We have 3 branches of government: Federal, State, and We The People.. (Senate, House, Judicial - all of which exist in the State
and Federal levels, thus they aren't branches of government in and of by themselves)..... We have the 2A and the other amendments of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaation of Indepednace, etc at the Federal level, but the States
for the most part are on their own for a lot of things....so keeping that in mind, my point is this: If each state passes a pro-freedom law and/or amendment to the stat constitution, it only serves to strengthen our position and resolve.

3) NOT passing any laws, to me, is akin to compromising our rights and positions as well. The logic is that if NO laws are passed regarding guns and gun rights, we didn't lose anything....well, we didn't gain anything either. We spend far too much time on the defensive defending our gun rights from the anti-gunners, but NOW, yes, *RIGHT NOW!!* is THE time, (and perhaps for the first time since the 2A was written and this country formed), that we must go on the offensive to not only retain, but gain any lost rights back and get some new ones as well.

We need to not only back HF1359, the authors and supporters of it. We need to keep the positive momentum going. We can look at the AWB from 1994-2004 and show people that IT DID NOT WORK!! HF458 will NOT work at all. HF1359 is NOT a magic bullet, but it IS a step in the right direction.

NOTE: Since the anti-gunners/grabbers changed "Gun Control" to "Gun Safety", I've changed "Pro-Gun" to "Pro-Freedom"

[JK-linux]

XDM45: perhaps I am missing something. What citizen rights does 1359 expand or add or deregulate? The bills are all long so I might have just misread it. What freedoms does this bill expand?

[XDM45]

XDM45: perhaps I am missing something. What citizen rights does 1359 expand or add or deregulate? The bills are all long so I might have just misread it. What freedoms does this bill expand?

HF1359 doesn't expand our rights, but it doesn't limit them either or punish legal owners by turning them into felons like HF458 does currently. HF1359 goes after the criminals and mentally ill in the proper way. There isn't any legislation out there which expands our rights (to my knowledge), and that's something we need. Sorry, I should have clarified myself better.

[JK-linux]

XDM45: perhaps I am missing something. What citizen rights does 1359 expand or add or deregulate? The bills are all long so I might have just misread it. What freedoms does this bill expand?

HF1359 doesn't expand our rights, but it doesn't limit them either or punish legal owners by turning them into felons like HF458 does currently. HF1359 goes after the criminals and mentally ill in the proper way. There isn't any legislation out there which expands our rights (to my knowledge), and that's something we need. Sorry, I should have clarified myself better.

Gotcha. Thought maybe I was missing something big it was giving back or doing away with. Thanks.

[BigBlue]

XDM45: perhaps I am missing something. What citizen rights does 1359 expand or add or deregulate? The bills are all long so I might have just misread it. What freedoms does this bill expand?

HF1359 doesn't expand our rights, but it doesn't limit them either or punish legal owners by turning them into felons like HF458 does currently. HF1359 goes after the criminals and mentally ill in the proper way. There isn't any legislation out there which expands our rights (to my knowledge), and that's something we need. Sorry, I should have clarified myself better.

And it stands at least some chance of helping to reduce the violent crime that is the current poster child for the anti-gun crowd. No, that's not their real goal, but it is what helps build their support base (via ignorant, emotional types). The less violent crime we have the less ammunition the anti-gunners have to use while trying to take our rights. And, of course, less violent crime is just a good thing in general.

Now I'm not saying that 1359 doesn't have some potential issues. I'm not expert enough to know for sure. I'm just trying to explain the general concept of why it might help us.

BB

[ktech]

Best outcome - SF458 fails on the floor since it doesn't have the votes; SF1359 (better than SF458, but still more regulation nonetheless) never comes up, and nothing gun-related "gets done" at all this year.

+1

SF1359, while not as bad as 458, still creates some issues that really don't need to be issues. One that comes to mind in particular is possession of ammunition by people under the legal age to possess the firearm that ammunition goes in. I understand the intent, but it also creates problems - what if Johnny goes on a hunting trip with his dad and ends up with an extra round in his backpack, which is then found at school or somewhere?
Just one example... I'm with JK-linux though; I'd be happiest if nothing passed.

[XDM45]

XDM45: perhaps I am missing something. What citizen rights does 1359 expand or add or deregulate? The bills are all long so I might have just misread it. What freedoms does this bill expand?

HF1359 doesn't expand our rights, but it doesn't limit them either or punish legal owners by turning them into felons like HF458 does currently. HF1359 goes after the criminals and mentally ill in the proper way. There isn't any legislation out there which expands our rights (to my knowledge), and that's something we need. Sorry, I should have clarified myself better.

And it stands at least some chance of helping to reduce the violent crime that is the current poster child for the anti-gun crowd. No, that's not their real goal, but it is what helps build their support base (via ignorant, emotional types). The less violent crime we have the less ammunition the anti-gunners have to use while trying to take our rights. And, of course, less violent crime is just a good thing in general.

Now I'm not saying that 1359 doesn't have some potential issues. I'm not expert enough to know for sure. I'm just trying to explain the general concept of why it might help us.

BB

Agreed.

I see HF1359 as this in a way too....

Gun Grabber (GG): We want to stop gun violence.
Gun Supporter (GS): Ok. Here's HF1359 which does a,b,c and d to do just that in 1,2,3 and 4, ways.

See, we are giving them what they are saying they want, which is solutions to help reduce crime and violence, but we aren't giving them (and what they are saying they REALLY want), is our freedoms and the guns which protect them. We can even point to various crime and gun statistics to show how things were from 1994-2004 vs 2004-2012, so we can even compare a 10 year period to an almost-10 year period of "with AWB" vs "Without AWB", and so forth and so on. Of course if someone is going to stick their fingers in their ears and ignore such things, not much you can do about that. We all know too that statistics can be spun a thousand different ways; but my point is to logically counter every one of their points and to help them paint themselves into a corner so eventually they MAY say "Look... just give us the GD guns!! That's ALL we want!!" Now at that point, the cat is out of the bag, John Q Public must surely see the spoken obvious and even they will think "WTF?? Is this a-hattery they are trying to pull anyway??" When John Q Public sees the infantile display of words, actions and deeds, (such as those by Lutz last night), even the most blinded Sheeple must see. Think of it as Gun Fu Judo....we aren't going to attack them, merely stick our foot out and let their own weight and imbalance propel them face first into the dirt where they will make fools of themselves.

I firmly believe that NOW is one of the most critical time in our nation's history when it comes to freedom. No, not as much as the Revolutionary or Civil Wars; but we are on a precipice indeed. We can look behind us and show what an AWB, Gun Control laws and legislation does at a strict nationwide level and what does and does not do for legal citizens who own firearms and what it does and does not do for crime, In 1994, we didn't have that before (to my knowledge), not on the level in which we did have it for those sorrowful 10 years of Hell; but now? Yes, we DO!!

If at the point of which all logical and reasonable points and efforts have failed, and we the people have come to the final point of exhaustion of all efforts to retain our freedoms; at that point, we tell them about 2A one final time, our legal line in the sand. If they don't listen and then attempt to forcibly take our freedom by taking away our tools to defend our freedom and our lives, by taking away our guns, (which depending upon their use are either tools of freedom, life and liberty or tools of enslavement, death, and suppression;) at that point we must each make a decision whether we'll let them have the entire gun or just the lead part of it.

Let each decide for him or herself what they will do should the time come, for by your own personal decision you will either live or die by it. When that time comes, if it comes, decide while you still have the option to do so.