Storm Troopers in Boston

[minnhawk]

Let me qualify this by saying I am pro-law enforcement. Why, some of my best friends are deputies and officers. However, I have to agree with several bloggers and writers about the "invasion" of Boston by tactical law enforcement types. Who were these guys, anyhow? Especially the guy in green cammies aiming at the photographer in the window? Were they mostly Homeland Security? Does Boston have/need that many SWAT forces? Here is what one blogger had to say:

When you arm, armor, and equip peace officers to act like combat infantrymen, but don't give them the training, don't be remotely surprised when they sling lead like a bunch of scared recruits just out of basic training. If you want cops to act like peace officers, force them to act like peace officers, not make-believe adjuncts to Seal Team 6. http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/04/boston ... nt-page-1/

What happened at the boat in the driveway was pure Keystone Kops. In fact, the whole black uniformed, tactical, SWAT-esque swarms of storm troopers throughout Boston had a real Laurel and Hardy approach to catching one punk-ass 19 year old kid...which they failed to do until Joe citizen found him in his boat. Flash bangs and 200 rounds later, the punk-jihadist surrenders after being talked to for 25 minutes. Really? Maybe the tinfoil hat screechers are on to something concerning the state of our country afterall.....

[Heffay]

I have no problem with the police dressing like that for specific purposes. There have been a ton of advances in tactical gear since they ran around in bowlers and billy clubs, and there is no reason that if they are hunting for an armed and dangerous guy that they should be using the latest gear to do so. And for the exact same reason, we can do the same thing, for when we pretend we're Rambo and go shooting in the woods.

If FBI special agents dressed like that ALL the time instead of the cheap suit and crappy sunglasses, I would have more of an issue with it. But for what they were doing, they absolutely should be using the proper gear for the job.

[Hmac]

Speaking of training, the capture of that young jihadi was described as being associated with a ferocious gunfight. IMHO, it takes two parties to stage a gunfight. The kid in the boat was unarmed.

[old guy]

Nothing to see here folks.

John

[Josh189]

I have no problem with the police dressing like that for specific purposes. There have been a ton of advances in tactical gear since they ran around in bowlers and billy clubs, and there is no reason that if they are hunting for an armed and dangerous guy that they should be using the latest gear to do so. And for the exact same reason, we can do the same thing, for when we pretend we're Rambo and go shooting in the woods.

If FBI special agents dressed like that ALL the time instead of the cheap suit and crappy sunglasses, I would have more of an issue with it. But for what they were doing, they absolutely should be using the proper gear for the job.

So when the officers in Newtown decided to take 10 minutes to put on plate carriers and ballistic helmets to respond to the bat *&^% crazy Lanza. You're ok with that?!
I know if I was a cop I'd drop what I was doing and burn rubber to stop that guy regardless of what happened to me.

[Hmac]

So when the officers in Newtown decided to take 10 minutes to put on plate carriers and ballistic helmets to respond to the bat *&^% crazy Lanza. You're ok with that?!
I know if I was a cop I'd drop what I was doing and burn rubber to stop that guy regardless of what happened to me.

Body armor for dealing with an active shooter sounds prudent to me.

[Josh189]

So when the officers in Newtown decided to take 10 minutes to put on plate carriers and ballistic helmets to respond to the bat *&^% crazy Lanza. You're ok with that?!
I know if I was a cop I'd drop what I was doing and burn rubber to stop that guy regardless of what happened to me.

Body armor for dealing with an active shooter sounds prudent to me.

If you were a fireman, would you wait to rescue someone in a burning building or wait to get your gear on? Prudent or not there have to be some heroes left in the world.

[jshuberg]

If you were a fireman, would you wait to rescue someone in a burning building or wait to get your gear on?

You sound like a Darwin award waiting to happen. Oh course I'd don firegear before entering a burning building. I'm not an idiot. That's what its for. People who rush into a dangerous situation with a disregard for safety practices and procedures typically end up adding to the problem, rather than solving it.

[mmcnx2]

If you were a fireman, would you wait to rescue someone in a burning building or wait to get your gear on? Prudent or not there have to be some heroes left in the world.

And that is how you end up with 2 victims.

As someone that has had to save more than one person that went through the ice, you bet your ass I put on a survival suit before going onto the thin ice to get get the person. While it may seem heroic to jump right in, the reality is you actually have a much much higher probability of messing up the situation worse than it already is. The best thing you can do for a victim is to do the job right, and that means gearing up and using your training to follow procedure.

[Heffay]

If you were a fireman, would you wait to rescue someone in a burning building or wait to get your gear on?

You sound like a Darwin award waiting to happen. Oh course I'd don firegear before entering a burning building. I'm not an idiot. That's what its for. People who rush into a dangerous situation with a disregard for safety practices and procedures typically end up adding to the problem, rather than solving it.

I actually got a medal in the Navy for telling guys not to rush into a burning storage locker space until they got their fire gear on! Navy Achievement Medal!

Apparently not allowing stupidity is a medal-worthy accomplishment.

[jshuberg]

I actually got a medal in the Navy for telling guys not to rush into a burning storage locker space until they got their fire gear on! Navy Achievement Medal!

Bravo Zulu! You probably saved their lives. DC Man? Fire Marshal? Scene Leader? Flying Squad?

[Hmac]

So when the officers in Newtown decided to take 10 minutes to put on plate carriers and ballistic helmets to respond to the bat *&^% crazy Lanza. You're ok with that?!
I know if I was a cop I'd drop what I was doing and burn rubber to stop that guy regardless of what happened to me.

Body armor for dealing with an active shooter sounds prudent to me.

If you were a fireman, would you wait to rescue someone in a burning building or wait to get your gear on? Prudent or not there have to be some heroes left in the world.

Yeah. The Internet is full of heroes.

[Heffay]

I actually got a medal in the Navy for telling guys not to rush into a burning storage locker space until they got their fire gear on! Navy Achievement Medal!

Bravo Zulu! You probably saved their lives. DC Man? Fire Marshal? Scene Leader? Flying Squad?

CDO. Ship full of heroes. It's annoying.

[jshuberg]

I was flying squad on the USS Midway. Everyone on board had to go through advanced firefighting school before attaching. We had a few idiots, but overall everyone was extremely professional and well trained when it came to DC. We had to deal with a casualty of some kind every 3 or 4 days at sea. When I was back in the states on leave for the first time in over 2 years, there was a catapult steam explosion that hit the flying squad while responding to report of a steam leak. My relief was one of the guys that was killed, and that messed with me for a good while afterward.

People that advocate running headlong into harms way without a plan, training, or proper equipment thinking that it'll result in anything other than their death or injury simply have no idea what they're talking about. I know most guys grow up with a juvenile fantasy of being a hero at some point in their life, but actual heroes rarely ever emerge spontaneously or by accident, but from hundreds or thousands of hours of training and sacrifice. And even then many end up paying for that title with their lives. The majority of people who choose to do this work in spite of the risks involved don't do it for a title, but out of a sense of duty to their fellow man. This includes those in law enforcement who go into harms way when the bad thing happens so that the rest of us don't have to.

[Ironbear]

If you were a fireman, would you wait to rescue someone in a burning building or wait to get your gear on?

You sound like a Darwin award waiting to happen. Oh course I'd don firegear before entering a burning building. I'm not an idiot. That's what its for. People who rush into a dangerous situation with a disregard for safety practices and procedures typically end up adding to the problem, rather than solving it.

+1

This is lesson number one, even for the teenie-boppers with summer jobs life-guarding at the swimming pool.

One of your roles as a first-responder, is not to be extra work for the second-responders....

Re. your other post... High Pressure Steam is certainly not to be taken lightly. Back in engineering school, we were shown pictures, of the aftermath of a steam boiler explosion in a ND power plant. Basically a 40' X 80' piece of the boiler left the building... along with pretty much everything between it and freedom.