Are our gun rights better off today?

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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby MJY65 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:18 am

Tronster wrote:Republicans have taken a majority in the Minnesota House, so at least the dems don't have a three way free for all in the state now. Doubt any good 2A stuff will come our way but it should put a damper on any negative 2A projects also.


I'd agree with that. With Federal legislation off the table for the next two years, Bloomberg and his crew will push hard in the states. Fortunately, the R House will provide a roadblock in MN.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby Ghost on Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:20 am

MJY65 wrote:Fortunately, the R House will provide a roadblock in MN.

As long as it is an actual roadblock and not just a speed bump.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby MJY65 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:45 am

Ghost wrote:
MJY65 wrote:Fortunately, the R House will provide a roadblock in MN.

As long as it is an actual roadblock and not just a speed bump.



Even a speed bump is better than a wide open highway.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby greenfarmer on Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:41 pm

farmerj wrote:
BigBlue wrote:
Ghost wrote:Although MN is dark blue, there is a reasonable gun presence on both sides of the isle. Need to keep supporting GOCRA. I was really hoping for suppressor progress but I that's not going to happen. If Iowa can get their suppressor bill through then we can be one of the 8 states that like noise pollution.


I can't understand the continued staunch opposition to suppressors. There is nothing logical about it. They aren't some magical devices that makes guns deadly. They apparently aren't used in crimes in states that allow them. And they offer real health/safety value. I'm surprised a nanny state like MN isn't trying to mandate them for hearing safety. The opponents must just be stuck in make-believe land where these devices are the root of all crime. I shake my head at all of the stupid decisions that are made in this world based on bias, emotion, and general moronism.

BB



Lobby the DNR, they're the hold up.


This is exactly right. The DNR has been against suppressors being legal because they are scared of more poachers using them. I've talked to a few people and that's what they have all said has always been a big push back has been the DNR, and I guess to a certain extent, I can see their point, and agree with it. But also, how many deer out there are poached in the middle of nowhere, that nobody says anything about, whether it's with a bow, or a gun, it does happen! Suppressors won't make a difference, because whether someone has one or not, if they want to poach a deer, they will. Reguardless of noise.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby Ghost on Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:17 pm

greenfarmer wrote:Suppressors won't make a difference, because whether someone has one or not, if they want to poach a deer, they will. Regardless of noise.

Thermal and a .22LR or Crossbow... would be my method if I were a poacher. Too many hoops to jump through to obtain a suppressor for poaching plus most people wouldn't think twice or likely hear a single gunshot at 2:00am in the middle of nowhere.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby jdege on Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:24 pm

Grayskies wrote:Are our gun rights better off today?

In some ways, yes.

In some ways, no.

Apparently, "universal background check" initiative petitions have already started in a number of states.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby Ghost on Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:35 pm

One other reason we are better off that hasn't been mentioned, Supreme Court Justices.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby BigBlue on Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:50 pm

greenfarmer wrote:This is exactly right. The DNR has been against suppressors being legal because they are scared of more poachers using them. I've talked to a few people and that's what they have all said has always been a big push back has been the DNR, and I guess to a certain extent, I can see their point, and agree with it. But also, how many deer out there are poached in the middle of nowhere, that nobody says anything about, whether it's with a bow, or a gun, it does happen! Suppressors won't make a difference, because whether someone has one or not, if they want to poach a deer, they will. Reguardless of noise.


I wonder if this poaching issue is a big problem in other states where suppressors are legal? Or are the fears of the DNR also as unfounded as those of the people who resisted carry permits because "if people carry guns they will be shooting everyone"?
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Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby jshuberg on Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:13 pm

Committing a crime with a suppressor carries a *minimum* 20 years in federal prison. It doesn't happen.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby MJY65 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:14 pm

BigBlue wrote:
greenfarmer wrote:This is exactly right. The DNR has been against suppressors being legal because they are scared of more poachers using them. I've talked to a few people and that's what they have all said has always been a big push back has been the DNR, and I guess to a certain extent, I can see their point, and agree with it. But also, how many deer out there are poached in the middle of nowhere, that nobody says anything about, whether it's with a bow, or a gun, it does happen! Suppressors won't make a difference, because whether someone has one or not, if they want to poach a deer, they will. Reguardless of noise.


I wonder if this poaching issue is a big problem in other states where suppressors are legal? Or are the fears of the DNR also as unfounded as those of the people who resisted carry permits because "if people carry guns they will be shooting everyone"?



I've never heard of it being a problem in other states. Anyway, who cares? Are there really that many guys out there that will spend the money on a suppressor just to whack a deer out of season? Even if they do, the number would be tiny compared to cars, wolves, winter, etc. Non-issue
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby BigBlue on Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:31 pm

MJY65 wrote:
BigBlue wrote:
greenfarmer wrote:This is exactly right. The DNR has been against suppressors being legal because they are scared of more poachers using them. I've talked to a few people and that's what they have all said has always been a big push back has been the DNR, and I guess to a certain extent, I can see their point, and agree with it. But also, how many deer out there are poached in the middle of nowhere, that nobody says anything about, whether it's with a bow, or a gun, it does happen! Suppressors won't make a difference, because whether someone has one or not, if they want to poach a deer, they will. Reguardless of noise.


I wonder if this poaching issue is a big problem in other states where suppressors are legal? Or are the fears of the DNR also as unfounded as those of the people who resisted carry permits because "if people carry guns they will be shooting everyone"?



I've never heard of it being a problem in other states. Anyway, who cares? Are there really that many guys out there that will spend the money on a suppressor just to whack a deer out of season? Even if they do, the number would be tiny compared to cars, wolves, winter, etc. Non-issue


That's my point. It's a obvious non-issue. But some people apparently think very strongly that it is an issue. So I always am curious to understand when someone thinks so dramatically differently than I do when the facts seem so clear.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby MJY65 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:38 pm

BigBlue wrote: But some people apparently think very strongly that it is an issue. So I always am curious to understand when someone thinks so dramatically differently than I do when the facts seem so clear.


I'd say that most government entities have an instinctive negative reaction to anything that provides more freedom to their subjects. Facts are unimportant to them.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby xd ED on Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:48 pm

MJY65 wrote:
BigBlue wrote: But some people apparently think very strongly that it is an issue. So I always am curious to understand when someone thinks so dramatically differently than I do when the facts seem so clear.


I'd say that most government entities have an instinctive negative reaction to anything that provides more freedom to their subjects. Facts are unimportant to them.


I think that's a big part of the resistance. But I suspect something a bit more sinister by some.
The one thing about firearms that effects everyone (negatively) is noise- either personally(hearing health issues) or esthetics/ tranquility ( that noisy gun range down the road.)
Eliminate the noise obsticle and you make shooting less objectionable.
And after all, for the busy bodies, the one thing worse than knowing when and where someone is shooting, would be not knowing.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby Lumpy on Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:59 pm

MJY65 wrote:I'd say that most government entities have an instinctive negative reaction to anything that provides more freedom to their subjects.
Which is why politically gun rights are usually an orphan issue- by definition there can't be an institutional interest in reducing government power. Anti-gun laws are only turned back by grassroots initiatives, otherwise they'd stay on the books forever.
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Re: Are our gun rights better off today?

Postby greenfarmer on Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:56 pm

BigBlue wrote:
greenfarmer wrote:This is exactly right. The DNR has been against suppressors being legal because they are scared of more poachers using them. I've talked to a few people and that's what they have all said has always been a big push back has been the DNR, and I guess to a certain extent, I can see their point, and agree with it. But also, how many deer out there are poached in the middle of nowhere, that nobody says anything about, whether it's with a bow, or a gun, it does happen! Suppressors won't make a difference, because whether someone has one or not, if they want to poach a deer, they will. Reguardless of noise.


I wonder if this poaching issue is a big problem in other states where suppressors are legal? Or are the fears of the DNR also as unfounded as those of the people who resisted carry permits because "if people carry guns they will be shooting everyone"?



I think the whole DNR excuse was just that... An EXCUSE.. I think it was just one way for someone in government to push the blame or reasoning onto someone else.

If they want "common sense" gun laws. Then allow suppressors. It's common sense that it's better for our hearing!

JShuberg said, it's 20 years for committing a crime with a suppressor... 20 years! "common sense" tells me that the same law abiding citizens that have a ptc and are legal to own a gun are the same law abiding citizens who would purchase a suppressor, and are the same law abiding citizens that would still be law abiding!

And like I said before. Suppressor or not, using a rifle in gun zone, or using a rifle or gun during bow season, whatever... It doesn't matter. A suppressor won't make a hill of beans difference in poaching! The poachers are the same ones who will poach reguardless of any laws. If they are going to break one law, they sure aren't going to worry about what another law says. If they want to poach, it doesn't matter what the laws are, they will poach big or small game.
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