Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

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Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby Lumpy on Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:20 am

I was recently reading an interesting book about the rise of asymmetrical warfare, The Utility of Force by Gen. Rupert Smith. The book makes the vital point that winning battles is useless if you don't have a coherent strategy for winning the war. This led me to reflect on something I've thought about often in the gun rights struggle: Certainly we've fought well and won battles: Shall Issue, stopping "Assault Weapons" bans, the Heller and McDonald rulings. But Lincoln said it best:
"public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it nothing can succeed. Consequently he who moulds public sentiment, goes deeper than he who enacts statutes or pronounces decisions. He makes statutes and decisions possible or impossible to be executed."
My question is, are we winning the "public sentiment" war? I worry that perhaps we are not.

At least measured by permit holder statistics, the pro-2nd people are a small percentage of the population. And because governments inherently will never be in favor of allowing people independence of force, it's an orphan issue politically, only kept alive by a grass roots movement. The 'Pubs pay some lip service to it, but mostly it's supported (or not) by individual politicians. Against this we see an enormous, well-funded propaganda machine that plays to the fears of the hoplophobes. Hollywood, when not getting rich off violence porn, pushes the gun control message. In nearly every metropolitan area in the US, semi-public urban policy groups promote gun control as the answer to inner-city crime and violence. Banning guns is now presented as a public health issue- a supreme propaganda victory for the antis.

So far at least, the Pro-2nd long-term strategy seems to be "win 2nd Amendment battles, show guns aren't so bad, and eventually the people will come around". The passage of Shall Issue help debunk the "blood running in the streets" scenario promulgated by the antis. The willingness of pro-2nd people to rally and politically organize has given the politicians pause. But my guess is that there will always be a hardcore percentage of hoplophobes who will always fear and dislike guns, not matter how widely they're otherwise accepted. The war will be won by which side can get the broad middle on their team; 3% of the population never forced 97% to do anything. If it's just permit holders against everyone else, we'll lose.

What can we do to win the "public sentiment" war?
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby Grayskies on Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:14 am

Well the populace is asleep when it comes to guns, especially when it comes to non-hunting weapons. Awhile back when Wisconsin was trying to get carry passed (they were within a few votes). What stopped it was several hunting clubs lobbying against carry...

I have seen it here, hunters saying the 2nd amendment is just about hunting, and nobody needs those non-hunting type firearms. Not saying all hunters or the ones that post here. But it is just an example of how deap the anti's message has penitrated, and how well the divide and conquer strategy in working.

I do think there is good news, Recent court decisions will help spread carry to places were it was not allowed before. Places like DC. I think acceptance will grow over time, who would have thought back in 03 that we would be at almost 200,000 permit holders and growing! Even in a really bad recession with spendy costs of gun, ammo, class and liscense it still kept growing.

I have not been at the capitol recently, but I do believe we have been swamping the legislature with pro-gun, pro-2nd people compaired with the handful Heather can drag in. This doesn't mean we can sit on our laurels, but that (IMO) people are not seeing carry as they once did here, none of the anti's promised doom and gloom has happened. The rivers of blood flowing in Minneapolis's streets did not happen.

In alot of ways the liberial anti's have been their own worst enemies, Clinton and Obama should get awards for helping selling so many firearms. Even the loss we had in Washington State I believe is going to be beaten back and probbaly the courts will hack at it some too.

Lastly look at Ferguson, people are buying incredable amount of firearms, They know that despite what all the bias news reportes and anti's are telling them, that the state and police can not protect them and their famlies. I think that bodes well for the pro-2nd cause.
Last edited by Grayskies on Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby photogpat on Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:15 am

See the whole "Chess not Checkers" argument Bryan Strawser makes from time to time.

Gotta think beyond your next move and your opponent's next move.
Nothing to see here. Continue swimming.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby farmerj on Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:37 am

You can start by not considering everything a war.

War on drug
War on guns
War on immigration
War on women


Come on folks....
We reap what we sow. In our case, we have sown our government.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby Grayskies on Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:48 am

farmerj wrote:You can start by not considering everything a war.

War on drug
War on guns
War on immigration
War on women


Come on folks....

But it worked so well for them with "crisis", and so many other words...
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby Lumpy on Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:49 am

farmerj wrote:You can start by not considering everything a war.

War on drug
War on guns
War on immigration
War on women


Come on folks....
Struggle? Conflict? Contest? Whatever you call it, there are those whose goal is a UK-style all-but-total ban on the private possession of guns. Much of the backlash against gun control in recent years has been due to the realization that there is no "reasonable" level of gun "control", because what the anti's want is the disappearance of guns from society.

I'll have to check out Bryan Strawser time permitting.

P.S. If I won the Lottery, I'd bankroll pro-firearms ads on national television. That's the sort of counter to the anti propaganda I'd like to see.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby farmerj on Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:51 am

It's a desire for control. Plain and simple. And as the English are finding out now that they've lost their guns, they are coming for knifes now.
We reap what we sow. In our case, we have sown our government.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby Grayskies on Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:56 am

Lumpy wrote:P.S. If I won the Lottery, I'd bankroll pro-firearms ads on national television. That's the sort of counter to the anti propaganda I'd like to see.

You really think the networks would sell time for pro-2nd adds?
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Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby xd ED on Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:25 pm

Grayskies wrote:
Lumpy wrote:P.S. If I won the Lottery, I'd bankroll pro-firearms ads on national television. That's the sort of counter to the anti propaganda I'd like to see.

You really think the networks would sell time for pro-2nd adds?

would a whore take money from someone they disagreed with?
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby Grayskies on Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:30 pm

One is a capitalist, the other an ideology.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby Ghost on Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:25 pm

xd ED wrote:
Grayskies wrote:
Lumpy wrote:P.S. If I won the Lottery, I'd bankroll pro-firearms ads on national television. That's the sort of counter to the anti propaganda I'd like to see.

You really think the networks would sell time for pro-2nd adds?

would a whore take money from someone they disagreed with?

Damn skippy, may have some extra fees included but money can buy it.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby bstrawse on Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:40 pm

photogpat wrote:See the whole "Chess not Checkers" argument Bryan Strawser makes from time to time.

Gotta think beyond your next move and your opponent's next move.


More like Chess, Checkers, and Tiddlywinks sometimes ;)

I think the post Pat is referencing is in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=44351&hilit=+chess
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby Grayskies on Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:49 pm

I kind of hate the game analogies some, I think some people treat this as a game... Peoples lives and freedom can depend on the outcome of these "games".

I am probably over reacting... Sorry.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby jdege on Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:10 pm

What can we do?

Make gun ownership common and ordinary.
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Re: Long Term Strategies: Winning the gun rights war

Postby bstrawse on Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:22 am

Grayskies wrote:I kind of hate the game analogies some, I think some people treat this as a game... Peoples lives and freedom can depend on the outcome of these "games".

I am probably over reacting... Sorry.


I can assure you that I don't treat any of this as a game.
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