Lead ammo email from MN Gun Owners PAC

[Holland&Holland]

Bull. Pb is Pd. Now it may be in a compound but it is still an element and still Pb and still a metal. Ya it may not be a silvery blob but an element is an element unless it has been split and in that case we are talking something else.

Sodium chloride = table salt. No one would ever say sodium chloride has the same properties as sodium and chlorine do individually.

I didn't say it wasn't lead anymore...just that elemental lead and lead compounds have different properties.

I never said it has the same properties. But Pb is Pb and is an element no mater what compound it is in.

[photogpat]

Bull. Pb is Pd. Now it may be in a compound but it is still an element and still Pb and still a metal. Ya it may not be a silvery blob but an element is an element unless it has been split and in that case we are talking something else.

Sodium chloride = table salt. No one would ever say sodium chloride has the same properties as sodium and chlorine do individually.

I didn't say it wasn't lead anymore...just that elemental lead and lead compounds have different properties.

I never said it has the same properties. But Pb is Pb and is an element no mater what compound it is in.

Great, then we're in agreement.

Moving on

[ZeeC]

The problem I see is the sheeple have been trained that Lead is right up there with Mercury and radioactive waste and you better call a hazmat team if you come in contact with it.

[BigBlue]

Bull. Pb is Pd. Now it may be in a compound but it is still an element and still Pb and still a metal. Ya it may not be a silvery blob but an element is an element unless it has been split and in that case we are talking something else.

That's incorrect. An element chemically bonded to another element makes something that can be totally different from either constituent. The sodium chloride example is a good one. Neither pure sodium nor chlorine is particularly good for you, but table salt most certainly is. And salt is also not a metal.

I'm not saying anything about the safety of pure lead versus lead compounds, because I don't know the details, but they could very well have dramatically different effects on things. Just pointing out that the chemistry is not as you describe.

BB

Of course they could have dramatically different effects. Na is still Na no matter what and Pd is still Pb no matter what it is in and both are metals. To say otherwise is just false.

Once sodium combines with chlorine to form salt the result is no longer a metal. Could you get pure sodium back out from salt? Yes, but it is another chemical process to do so. Until that happens, salt is not a metal no matter that it contains some sodium. It's not like you're putting two unreacting things in a blender and making a mixture that is just jumbled up individual elements. In a compound they react, change, and that means they are something different with different properties. Same goes for any element/compound, including lead. But don't take my word for it... check out a HS chemistry book.

Is salt a metal or nonmetal?

BB

[yukonjasper]

You guys are all really really smart. So tell me the airspeed of a laden swallow...........

[ZeeC]

You guys are all really really smart. So tell me the airspeed of a laden swallow...........

African or European?

Sorry I couldn't help myself

[Holland&Holland]

Once sodium combines with chlorine to form salt the result is no longer a metal. Could you get pure sodium back out from salt? Yes, but it is another chemical process to do so. Until that happens, salt is not a metal no matter that it contains some sodium. It's not like you're putting two unreacting things in a blender and making a mixture that is just jumbled up individual elements. In a compound they react, change, and that means they are something different with different properties. Same goes for any element/compound, including lead. But don't take my word for it... check out a HS chemistry book.

Is salt a metal or nonmetal?

BB

Not correct. Na is always a metal. Now table salt the compound itself is not but the Na in it still is. Na DOES not become something other than Na. Yes the compound is what it is but it still contains metal. Just like paint with lead contains metal.

[shooter115]

You guys are all really really smart. So tell me the airspeed of a laden swallow...........

Just slightly faster than a laden spit.

[acanales]

Rob Doar wrote of his fears that banning lead ammo could cause ammo prices to become much, much higher. To me, this comes off as being a bit dramatic and contrary to the basics of economics. While the prices are currently higher for non-toxic shotgun shells, the increase in demand for them would cause shifts in production and increases from the companies that currently make them. Hunting is already an expensive hobby. You swallowed the elephant, why choke on the tail? I am never in favor of any bans, but isn't there a better way to go about this opposition than this tactic?

*Title edited to reflect the correct entity

There are a number of assumptions that are incorrect here.

The first and most important is that replacement materials for lead shot are "non-toxic". Studies show that copper, tungsten, bismuth, even steel with small quantities of hexavalent chromium in them are toxic as defined by one Federal or State Agency somewhere.

Copper and tungsten in ammunition were found to be quite problematic from a toxicity standpoint in an Army Corps of Engineers study- ERDC TR-07-5 , "...Fate and Transport of Tungsten at Camp Edwards Small Arms Ranges...", back in August of 2007. The study can be found at: http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/elpubs/pdf/tr07-5.pdf

Additional military studies show tungsten to be carcinogenic under certain exposure levels in mice, with new studies ongoing.

What will complicate matters for the waterfowl crowd is that the Obama Administration, no friend to hunters and shooters, redefined the regulations for approving waterfowl shot back in December of 2013. 50CFR20.134 is now slated to measure of a wider range of toxicities for the approval of waterfowl shot, and shot and centerfire/rimfire projectiles in such states as California that have moved towards a statewide lead projectile ban. The US Fish & Wildlife Service noted in the new rule posting that some projectile materials could lose their approval as waterfowl "nontoxic" shot given the stricter testing for additional toxicity now incorporated into the Federal Register.

In essence, the lead ban is not so much a wildlife management issue as it is a gun ban issue by use of environmental regulation and the politicized concepts of conservation biology.

Data are information related to these attempts by environmentalists to push for a total ammunition ban nationwide can be found at: http://www.huntfortruth.org/

Specific articles on how the environmentalists are using any means necessary to push through a thoroughly politicized "agenda science" include:

http://www.huntfortruth.org/5-year-lead ... a-condors/

http://www.huntfortruth.org/ab-711-beco ... al-report/

http://www.huntfortruth.org/wm-study-sh ... rea-dumps/

http://www.huntfortruth.org/the-definin ... rial-lead/

http://www.huntfortruth.org/lead-ammo-b ... -politics/

Respectfully,

Anthony Canales
Los Angeles, California