RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

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RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby BigBlue on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:16 am

I just saw some posts on FB with sky-is-falling warnings from a gun rights organization that isn't well respected around here. The content was basically that the RealID bill is the most awful thing in the world and should not be passed. Also that many normally gun-friendly MN reps are pushing for it. Does anyone with some actual knowledge of the bill or situation have thoughts on it?

Here's an excerpt. And no, I'm not linking to it because it is from an organization I believe generally scams MN gun owners whenever it can.

House Speaker Kurt Daudt and his anti-gun-crony faction in the Minnesota House are about to take up HF3, the “REAL ID Act” better termed as DANGEROUS ID!

Gun owners across the country have been fighting to oppose this dreadful legislation for years.

Dangerous ID is a federal government power-grab designed to beat states into servitude and centralize citizen identification.

It grants the Secretary of Homeland Security the EXCLUSIVE authority to decide where and when the new DANGEROUS ID will be required by law.

If he or she decides you must have a new micro-chipped “for federal purposes” license to buy a firearm, there’s nothing the state of Minnesota can do to stop them.


What I find very hard to believe about this is that our very friendly reps and senators are somehow blindly falling for this. AND that advocacy groups I know and respect have said nothing about it.

Thoughts??

BB
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby MJY65 on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:22 am

I'm calling BS on this one
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby bstrawse on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:48 am

BS.

First, Kurt Daudt is an A+ rated, MNGOPAC endorsed candidate. Kurt strongly supports both Stand Your Ground and Constitutional Carry, which is why you will see action on those bills during this legislative session. Saying he has an anti-gun crony faction in the MN house is pretty funny.

Second, as a personal political position, I've read through the REALID act at a federal level and the bill proposed here in the state. I see no real items of concern as a gun owner. The Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus takes no position on REALID.

Finally, when REALID hits the floor of the Minnesota House in the coming week or two, you will see two amendments brought forward to completely bar - in statute - Minnesota sharing or collecting any gun owner data as a part of the REALID implementation or sharing it with other states or the federal government.

Hope this helps.

Bryan
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby Hmac on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:49 am

I'm not sure I see the danger is a unified ID system. Certainly the requirements under Real ID make falsification of identification less likely. The Real ID requirements are basically the same as for a US Passport. I don't see the Real ID opponents protesting that states should be able to issue their own international passports.

For my part, I just elected to get a passport card in addition to my passport book. It's $30 and valid for 10 years. I use that for ID at federal checkpoints. What Minnesota does as one of the few states to oppose Real ID is irrelevant to me.
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby bstrawse on Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:53 am

BigBlue wrote:What I find very hard to believe about this is that our very friendly reps and senators are somehow blindly falling for this. AND that advocacy groups I know and respect have said nothing about it.

Thoughts??

BB


The Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus sent several communications out about REALID last year when it was up for consideration in the previous session. I've pasted one below.

We'll have more to say when the bill is slated to move to the House floor for debate.

I do believe there is a hearing today on it as well.

Here's the email from 8 months ago that we sent out:
Later today, the Minnesota House will take up SF3589 (also known as SF3959), the REAL ID implementation act, led by Representative Dennis Smith.

As you may have seen from news coverage, Minnesota is not compliant with the federal REAL ID act, which sets nationwide security standards for driver's licenses and identification cards. Without Minnesota adjusting its laws around the issuance of driver's licenses, in the future Minnesotans will not be able to use their driver's license to board an aircraft, enter many federal installations (military bases) and buildings, and other issues.

You can read more about REAL ID at this link from the US Department of Homeland Security.

There are many valid concerns with REAL ID - from the sharing of information with other states and the federal government, to concern about the overreach of the federal government, to the frustration in obtaining all of the required documentation required for a REAL ID compliant driver's license.

For gun owners, however, one of the concerns is about data that the state holds today about you as a gun owner - and what happens with that information.

That's why over the past week, we've been working with Representative Dennis Smith (R-34B) and Representative Jim Nash (R-47A) to add amendments to the REAL ID Implementation bill being heard today to protect the privacy of Minnesota's gun owners.

These two amendments will specifically prohibit the Commissioner of Public Safety from sharing any information related to hunter / firearms safety certification, any information about the purchase of transfer of firearms, and any information about permits to carry.

These amendments would stop any of the information held by the State of Minnesota today about gun owners from ever being shared with other states of the federal government through the REAL ID Act.

You can read the two amendments online here:
A4 amendment covering hunter/firearms safety information contained in MN 171.07, Subd. 13
A5 amendment covering data pertaining to the purchase or transfer of firearms, and permits to carry firearms, as collected under MN 624.712 - 624.719.
We are taking no position on the underlying REAL ID implementation bill, but we believe these two amendments are critical to protect the privacy of gun owners. We have informed our allies in the House that we will be grading the votes on the two amendments.

Can you take 5 minutes today to contact your Representatives and let them know you support the Smith Gun Owner Privacy Protection Amendments?
Call your State Representative: Let them know you support the A4 and A5 amendments by Rep. Smith to safeguard the privacy of Minnesota's gun owners with today's REAL ID implementation bill (SF3589)

You can use the Who Represents Me link at the State Legislature to find your Representative's contact information.

E-Mail your State Representative: After calling your State Representative, follow-up with a brief email reiterating your points.

As you make contact, be sure to be firm, but polite.

No matter your position on REAL ID, I think all of us would agree that it is important to ensure that the privacy of gun owners, our firearms, and our permits is safeguarded. Rep. Smith's amendments will ensure that our information will never be shared.

For additional information, you can read our Fact Sheet on REAL ID and Gun Owner Privacy in Minnesota and our Letter of Support to Rep. Nash and Rep. Smith.

Please make these calls today!

Yours in Liberty,
Bryan Strawser
Chair
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby Hmac on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:39 am

I guess I don't understand. Why does the GOC think that state information about gun ownership would be any more likely than it already is to be shared with the Federal government? Where in the Real ID act, or in Minnesota's proposed legislation on the issue, is such information vulnerable to be shared? I thought I understood that the permit database was completely separate from the driver's license database. Why do you think that information is at risk of falling into the hands of the Federal government, and why is that more likely than the access to 4473's already is?
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby BigBlue on Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:47 am

Thanks for the info. That's what I thought. What they are trying to push just makes no sense. I wanted to get better info here before trying to educate some people who may not know better though.

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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby yukonjasper on Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:02 am

It could be that "unnamed group" who everyone suspected to be dubious at best but likely nefarious in it purpose is either realizing that with the overwhelming support of Donald Trump and the unified front that this likely represents relating to 2nd Amendment issues among others, that its ability to undermine the gun rights community with misinformation and siphoning funds that it need to create a new "Bogie Man" and is struggling with whatever they think they can make believable to the gullible people they have already preyed upon OR the know that they are washed up now that the tide has turned, they are showing themselves for the frauds they really are by supporting something that is clearly a Liberal Bell Cow.
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby photogpat on Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:00 pm

yukonjasper wrote:It could be that "unnamed group" who everyone suspected to be dubious at best but likely nefarious in it purpose is either realizing that with the overwhelming support of Donald Trump and the unified front that this likely represents relating to 2nd Amendment issues among others, that its ability to undermine the gun rights community with misinformation and siphoning funds that it need to create a new "Bogie Man" and is struggling with whatever they think they can make believable to the gullible people they have already preyed upon OR the know that they are washed up now that the tide has turned, they are showing themselves for the frauds they really are by supporting something that is clearly a Liberal Bell Cow.


Unnamed group striving for relevancy.

Best to be ignored.
Nothing to see here. Continue swimming.
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby bstrawse on Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:44 pm

Hmac wrote:I guess I don't understand. Why does the GOC think that state information about gun ownership would be any more likely than it already is to be shared with the Federal government? Where in the Real ID act, or in Minnesota's proposed legislation on the issue, is such information vulnerable to be shared? I thought I understood that the permit database was completely separate from the driver's license database. Why do you think that information is at risk of falling into the hands of the Federal government, and why is that more likely than the access to 4473's already is?


We don't think that information is going to be shared - it's not maintained by DVS and isn't shared today. There are zero plans to do so in the future - existing MN data privacy laws would prohibit from being shared either way.

You are correct that the permit database is completely separate and maintained away from the DVS databases.

The bill language we proposed (and was used in 2016 - and will be used again) is really nothing more than comfort language making it clear that this information cannot be shared NOW or IN THE FUTURE (without a legislative change).
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby Hmac on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:07 pm

bstrawse wrote:
Hmac wrote:I guess I don't understand. Why does the GOC think that state information about gun ownership would be any more likely than it already is to be shared with the Federal government? Where in the Real ID act, or in Minnesota's proposed legislation on the issue, is such information vulnerable to be shared? I thought I understood that the permit database was completely separate from the driver's license database. Why do you think that information is at risk of falling into the hands of the Federal government, and why is that more likely than the access to 4473's already is?


We don't think that information is going to be shared - it's not maintained by DVS and isn't shared today. There are zero plans to do so in the future - existing MN data privacy laws would prohibit from being shared either way.

You are correct that the permit database is completely separate and maintained away from the DVS databases.

The bill language we proposed (and was used in 2016 - and will be used again) is really nothing more than comfort language making it clear that this information cannot be shared NOW or IN THE FUTURE (without a legislative change).

That is very helpful clarification. Thank you for your very effective efforts on these issues.
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby bstrawse on Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:28 pm

Hmac wrote:
bstrawse wrote:
Hmac wrote:I guess I don't understand. Why does the GOC think that state information about gun ownership would be any more likely than it already is to be shared with the Federal government? Where in the Real ID act, or in Minnesota's proposed legislation on the issue, is such information vulnerable to be shared? I thought I understood that the permit database was completely separate from the driver's license database. Why do you think that information is at risk of falling into the hands of the Federal government, and why is that more likely than the access to 4473's already is?


We don't think that information is going to be shared - it's not maintained by DVS and isn't shared today. There are zero plans to do so in the future - existing MN data privacy laws would prohibit from being shared either way.

You are correct that the permit database is completely separate and maintained away from the DVS databases.

The bill language we proposed (and was used in 2016 - and will be used again) is really nothing more than comfort language making it clear that this information cannot be shared NOW or IN THE FUTURE (without a legislative change).

That is very helpful clarification. Thank you for your very effective efforts on these issues.


We're happy to do it! Rob Doar, our political director, deserves all the credit for driving this one last session w/ Rep. Dennis Smith and Rep. Jim Nash (among others)
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby Randygmn on Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:51 pm

I'd support this ID if it was required for voting.
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby BigBlue on Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:40 pm

Conversation found on FB with some folks advocating for M G R. Interesting take on things. Kind of like talking to liberals, it appears.

Image
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Re: RealID Bill a Cause for Concern?

Postby Holland&Holland on Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:06 pm

BigBlue wrote:Conversation found on FB with some folks advocating for M G R. Interesting take on things. Kind of like talking to liberals, it appears.

Image


Really to be fair there are probably hundreds of similar threads on here. I would call it typical of an internet argument.
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