Any real school safety bills?

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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby yukonjasper on Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:27 am

I would think that having some sort of situational training would be a good idea.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby xd ED on Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:28 am

Citiot wrote:Don't go down the rabbit hole.

A teacher with a permit-to-carry is trusted all over the state to carry a gun..... except in a school. Why?

A teacher with a PTC (while not working for the school) is trusted to carry around children in Chuck-E-Cheese, Southdale, Museums, Zoos, Sunday School, at Easter egg hunts, in parks, at Bar Mitsvahs, at Boy and Girl Scout outings, at quinceañeras etc.... why the need for anything special in a school?

Keep the argument to this simple point.

(I do realize that a principal can give permission for staff to carry in a school. I am saying that this should not need any extra permission)


I would humbly suggest responding to an active shooter in an occupied school is something most are not trained for.
Granted, one can always remain passive, but that's not the purpose, or function of a specifically trained force.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby bstrawse on Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:58 pm

There are a number of actual school safety bills moving through the Minnesota House & Senate - including bills to fund school resource officers, physical security assessments, change drills & active shooter training, require threat assessment teams and processes, fund physical security improvements, and so on.

There is a bill that removes the permission requirement for a teacher or staff member to carry a firearm.

We expect most of these changes to pass and become law this session.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby northernbird on Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:53 pm

bstrawse wrote:There are a number of actual school safety bills moving through the Minnesota House & Senate - including bills to fund school resource officers, physical security assessments, change drills & active shooter training, require threat assessment teams and processes, fund physical security improvements, and so on.

There is a bill that removes the permission requirement for a teacher or staff member to carry a firearm.

We expect most of these changes to pass and become law this session.


Thats awesome! Can we bring more attention to these in some way? The anti's dont talk about these.. I'd like to be one talking about real solutions.

I dont disagree with your previous post, that the simple point is that schools should not be gun free zones.. people trusted elsewhere should be trusted there as well. My concern is that 'for the childrens safety' no one will be trusted anywhere with more than a single shot smoke pole. Unless we open some eyes to the actual 'common sense' steps that can and should be taken (and maybe actually are) the ignorant are going to hop on the bandwagon of 'we have to do something to prevent these tragedies'.

Brian - would you guys consider sending out an email to the MN Gun owners caucus outlining some of these bills? I think it would be really nice to be able to call my reps and ask them to help push those through, as well as to use them as a good redirect for people I talk with that dont fully support the crazies but are getting pushed that way because they just think something needs to be done.

Thanks.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby yukonjasper on Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:12 pm

Don't under estimate the teachers union's ability to create more dues paying members. If they think about it, the liberals will have another excuse for expanding spending for education. Possibly even an entirely new division of Homeland Security.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby rtk on Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:45 pm

yukonjasper wrote:Don't under estimate the teachers union's ability to create more dues paying members. If they think about it, the liberals will have another excuse for expanding spending for education. Possibly even an entirely new division of Homeland Security.


That's a reach...
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby Bearcatrp on Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:17 pm

xd ED wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Metal detectors will help with kids sneaking guns into school but won’t stop the nut fully armed and ready to kill. The nut can select a side window to shoot out to gain entry and start slaughtering. He could wait until school starts then attack. Arming teachers have shown problematic. Not sure the answer to this problem either.

.....Arming teachers have shown problematic.......


When, where?

I believe it was a teacher in Florida had brought a gun to class legally and started shooting it, not at the kids though. You also had a reserve cop at a school who said he had to make sure the gun did not have a round chambered and while checking it went off. You also had a armed resource officer talking to some kids in a common area and a kid with small fingers managed to fire the gun while in the holster. Best to leave armed officers out side patrolling while have one point of entry with metal detectors to check kids going in. Once the bell rings, seal up the building. Let about 3 or 4 officers monitor the outside.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby rtk on Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:26 pm

You will never fix stupid, that's just a fact of life.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby Ghost on Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:26 pm

Bearcatrp wrote:
xd ED wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Metal detectors will help with kids sneaking guns into school but won’t stop the nut fully armed and ready to kill. The nut can select a side window to shoot out to gain entry and start slaughtering. He could wait until school starts then attack. Arming teachers have shown problematic. Not sure the answer to this problem either.

.....Arming teachers have shown problematic.......


When, where?

I believe it was a teacher in Florida had brought a gun to class legally and started shooting it, not at the kids though. You also had a reserve cop at a school who said he had to make sure the gun did not have a round chambered and while checking it went off. You also had a armed resource officer talking to some kids in a common area and a kid with small fingers managed to fire the gun while in the holster. Best to leave armed officers out side patrolling while have one point of entry with metal detectors to check kids going in. Once the bell rings, seal up the building. Let about 3 or 4 officers monitor the outside.

A teacher legally brought a gun and started doing target practice?

Everyone else had badges.

Any thoughts on Maryland’s recent incident?
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby Holland&Holland on Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:41 pm

Bearcatrp wrote:
xd ED wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Metal detectors will help with kids sneaking guns into school but won’t stop the nut fully armed and ready to kill. The nut can select a side window to shoot out to gain entry and start slaughtering. He could wait until school starts then attack. Arming teachers have shown problematic. Not sure the answer to this problem either.

.....Arming teachers have shown problematic.......


When, where?

I believe it was a teacher in Florida had brought a gun to class legally and started shooting it, not at the kids though. You also had a reserve cop at a school who said he had to make sure the gun did not have a round chambered and while checking it went off. You also had a armed resource officer talking to some kids in a common area and a kid with small fingers managed to fire the gun while in the holster. Best to leave armed officers out side patrolling while have one point of entry with metal detectors to check kids going in. Once the bell rings, seal up the building. Let about 3 or 4 officers monitor the outside.


Seriously? These are your examples?
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby xd ED on Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:53 pm

Bearcatrp wrote:
xd ED wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Metal detectors will help with kids sneaking guns into school but won’t stop the nut fully armed and ready to kill. The nut can select a side window to shoot out to gain entry and start slaughtering. He could wait until school starts then attack. Arming teachers have shown problematic. Not sure the answer to this problem either.

.....Arming teachers have shown problematic.......


When, where?

I believe it was a teacher in Florida had brought a gun to class legally and started shooting it, not at the kids though. You also had a reserve cop at a school who said he had to make sure the gun did not have a round chambered and while checking it went off. You also had a armed resource officer talking to some kids in a common area and a kid with small fingers managed to fire the gun while in the holster. Best to leave armed officers out side patrolling while have one point of entry with metal detectors to check kids going in. Once the bell rings, seal up the building. Let about 3 or 4 officers monitor the outside.


Pearl MS Oct. 1, 1997:
"Luke Woodham fatally stabbed his mother at home before opening fire at his high school, killing two students and injuring seven others. The attack was stopped when Assistant Principal Joel Myrick retrieved his .45 caliber handgun from his truck and confronted Woodham, detaining him until authorities could arrive.

Myrick’s action stopped Woodham from going across the street to the middle school as he had planned."


There is history of armed teachers saving lives; not certain about any serious problems occurring where armed teachers have caused injury, or cost lives, either intentionally or negligently .
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby xd ED on Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:03 pm

Bearcatrp wrote:
xd ED wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Metal detectors will help with kids sneaking guns into school but won’t stop the nut fully armed and ready to kill. The nut can select a side window to shoot out to gain entry and start slaughtering. He could wait until school starts then attack. Arming teachers have shown problematic. Not sure the answer to this problem either.

.....Arming teachers have shown problematic.......


When, where?

I believe it was a teacher in Florida had brought a gun to class legally and started shooting it, not at the kids though. You also had a reserve cop at a school who said he had to make sure the gun did not have a round chambered and while checking it went off. You also had a armed resource officer talking to some kids in a common area and a kid with small fingers managed to fire the gun while in the holster. Best to leave armed officers out side patrolling while have one point of entry with metal detectors to check kids going in. Once the bell rings, seal up the building. Let about 3 or 4 officers monitor the outside.


THIS?: http://wgno.com/2018/02/28/armed-teacher-arrested-after-shooting-at-georgia-high-school/

DALTON, GA. – An armed social studies teacher has been arrested after shots were fired at a high school in a small town in northern Georgia.

Fifty-three-year-old Jesse Randall Davidson, a social studies teacher who also serves as the play by play voice for the Dalton High School football team, fired at least one shot before barricading himself inside a classroom, according to the Dalton Police Department.

The DPD reported that “shot or shots” had been fired at Dalton High School just after 11:15 a.m. on the department’s official Twitter account.

Minutes later, DPD added that the armed suspect was barricaded inside a classroom at the school and urged parents not to come to the school...
...Students were transported to the Northeast Georgia Trade Center for pickup, according to the DPD.

At 11:23 a.m., the department tweeted an update that read “The teacher is in custody.”

No students were harmed, and no children were in danger during the shooting, but one student did sustain an ankle injury running inside the school during the evacuation, according to the DPD.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby bstrawse on Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:41 am

northernbird wrote:
bstrawse wrote:There are a number of actual school safety bills moving through the Minnesota House & Senate - including bills to fund school resource officers, physical security assessments, change drills & active shooter training, require threat assessment teams and processes, fund physical security improvements, and so on.

There is a bill that removes the permission requirement for a teacher or staff member to carry a firearm.

We expect most of these changes to pass and become law this session.


Thats awesome! Can we bring more attention to these in some way? The anti's dont talk about these.. I'd like to be one talking about real solutions.

I dont disagree with your previous post, that the simple point is that schools should not be gun free zones.. people trusted elsewhere should be trusted there as well. My concern is that 'for the childrens safety' no one will be trusted anywhere with more than a single shot smoke pole. Unless we open some eyes to the actual 'common sense' steps that can and should be taken (and maybe actually are) the ignorant are going to hop on the bandwagon of 'we have to do something to prevent these tragedies'.

Brian - would you guys consider sending out an email to the MN Gun owners caucus outlining some of these bills? I think it would be really nice to be able to call my reps and ask them to help push those through, as well as to use them as a good redirect for people I talk with that dont fully support the crazies but are getting pushed that way because they just think something needs to be done.

Thanks.


We have the bills (most of them) up on our legislative tracker on our website - gunowners.mn.

We're deliberately not calling attention to these bills - our involvement would probably take the DFL support away - and we want them to pass. We're staying fairly lowkey.
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby sansooshooter on Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:18 am

northernbird wrote:
bstrawse wrote:There are a number of actual school safety bills moving through the Minnesota House & Senate - including bills to fund school resource officers, physical security assessments, change drills & active shooter training, require threat assessment teams and processes, fund physical security improvements, and so on.

There is a bill that removes the permission requirement for a teacher or staff member to carry a firearm.

We expect most of these changes to pass and become law this session.


Thats awesome! Can we bring more attention to these in some way? The anti's dont talk about these.. I'd like to be one talking about real solutions.

I dont disagree with your previous post, that the simple point is that schools should not be gun free zones.. people trusted elsewhere should be trusted there as well. My concern is that 'for the childrens safety' no one will be trusted anywhere with more than a single shot smoke pole. Unless we open some eyes to the actual 'common sense' steps that can and should be taken (and maybe actually are) the ignorant are going to hop on the bandwagon of 'we have to do something to prevent these tragedies'.

Brian - would you guys consider sending out an email to the MN Gun owners caucus outlining some of these bills? I think it would be really nice to be able to call my reps and ask them to help push those through, as well as to use them as a good redirect for people I talk with that dont fully support the crazies but are getting pushed that way because they just think something needs to be done.

Thanks.

I ask for more school security in every e-mail I send . I have sent a lot of e-mails in the last month !
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Re: Any real school safety bills?

Postby yukonjasper on Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:20 am

rtk wrote:
yukonjasper wrote:Don't under estimate the teachers union's ability to create more dues paying members. If they think about it, the liberals will have another excuse for expanding spending for education. Possibly even an entirely new division of Homeland Security.


That's a reach...


How so? The very existence of Government is to perpetuate itself. Same goes for Unions. Even worse when its a Government Union. Look at the history of the beginnings of the Agencies we have now. Each of the newest ones sprung up out of some need and have since ballooned into gigantic Bureaucratic Cash Sucking Machines.
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