This article hits the mark on school shootings

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This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby BigBlue on Tue May 22, 2018 7:07 am

I was surprised to see this in the Red Star. It matches what my thinking has been as far as the changes in society that are leading to troubles we see around us.

http://www.startribune.com/school-shootings-it-s-the-culture-but-that-doesn-t-mean-we-be-completely-hands-off-about-guns/483262311/

I don't agree with everything said there (gun violence restraining orders) but in general this guy sees the forest for the trees.

The boy shooters filled with nihilism and despair, with hate, with little regard for the lives of others. But how were they formed?

The boy shooters weren’t hatched from dead eggs in an empty desert and raised up alone.

We’re all part of the culture. So we shape them, if not directly then indirectly as we pursue our own wants and desires. We till the ground for the young.

Belief in God is mocked in our culture. Religion is belittled. Decency is snickered at. Tradition is deconstructed.

Liberty is defined as doing what we want with our bodies. We glaze our minds with media and say hateful things to people we don’t know by using our phones, because we’re right and those who disagree are wrong.
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby Ghost on Tue May 22, 2018 7:18 am

Or it could be we dope them into a shell of themselves

https://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-shooting-in-the-last-20-years-shares-psychotropic-drugs/#axzz5GA0QRHYh

Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.

The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.

Snip



On to the list of mass shooters and the stark link to psychotropic drugs.

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

Missing from list… 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or
What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct


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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby MJY65 on Tue May 22, 2018 7:55 am

Well, people with psychiatric problems do tend to be on psychiatric meds. Correlation does not equal causation.

There are A LOT of people on some meds for depression, anxiety, etc. Almost none commit murder. Just like gun owners.
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby jdege on Tue May 22, 2018 8:11 am

MJY65 wrote:Well, people with psychiatric problems do tend to be on psychiatric meds. Correlation does not equal causation.

There are A LOT of people on some meds for depression, anxiety, etc. Almost none commit murder. Just like gun owners.


The problem with psych meds is that people respond to them differently.

They may help most, but they can have serious side effects in a small minority, and our Pshrinks aren't always watching for that.
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby MJY65 on Tue May 22, 2018 8:12 am

^^^^

The same could be said for self medication with alcohol.
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby Ghost on Tue May 22, 2018 8:27 am

MJY65 wrote:^^^^

The same could be said for self medication with alcohol.

Alcohol generally impairs to the point they aren’t capable of planning for an extended period of time and then executing attacks like we are discussing.

Plus, you have to be 21 to drink...
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby MJY65 on Tue May 22, 2018 8:34 am

^^^
Fair enough. I'd just be careful about using a broad brush on anything. We hate it when anti gunners do it, let's not fall into the trap ourselves
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby Ghost on Tue May 22, 2018 8:40 am

MJY65 wrote:^^^
Fair enough. I'd just be careful about using a broad brush on anything. We hate it when anti gunners do it, let's not fall into the trap ourselves

I think we are a society that is quick to medicate to correct symptoms rather than fix the underlying problems.

Much like taking guns away is thought to eliminate the problem but it’s only a symptom. The problem is some people want to kill other people.
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby jdege on Tue May 22, 2018 9:05 am

MJY65 wrote:^^^
Fair enough. I'd just be careful about using a broad brush on anything. We hate it when anti gunners do it, let's not fall into the trap ourselves

The individuals who have psychopathic breakdowns when on antidepressants make up a fraction of one percent of those who receive them. Using a broad brush is clearly inappropriate.

But pretending that this doesn't happen is dangerous.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/antidepressants-side-effects-psychosis-nice-terror-attack-german-wings-pilot-extremism-terrorism-a7191566.html
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby MJY65 on Tue May 22, 2018 9:11 am

^^^^^^

Agreed, but let's not give the antis one more "disqualifier" because a woman goes on Prozac for postpartum depression she gets her guns taken away.
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby Randygmn on Tue May 22, 2018 9:13 am

There’s always a neo-Marxist, Post Modernist leftist agenda amongst the media. This “reasonable” article is really about male toxicity.
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby BigBlue on Tue May 22, 2018 9:25 am

Randygmn wrote:There’s always a neo-Marxist, Post Modernist leftist agenda amongst the media. This “reasonable” article is really about male toxicity.


Not sure I see where you're getting that perspective. Explain?
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby yukonjasper on Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

I've long been curious what the long term effects of introducing psychoactive drugs to a developing mind and I think we are maybe seeing some of that with the behavior of this newest generation. I really don't think its one thing however. I do believe the issues go much deeper and the drug argument is just the tip of the iceberg. The disintegration of family, the loss of human contact with the advent of social media, the disassociation that comes with immersion in alternate realities represented by video games, the abandonment of faith, the over sexualization of society, the de-emphasis of empathy and sincerity, the manipulation of emotion by social media, the constant bombardment of the senses with cell phones ...............I could go on and on.................... I'm not ready to declare that all is lost, however, all of these situations have consequences and you would have to be a completely obtuse dullard to not see some correlation.

Each generation believes it successor is lost and yet time marches on and equilibrium is reached. I hope that remains the balance of the universe. I don't like the world where everything tips over.................
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby Ghost on Tue May 22, 2018 9:59 am

yukonjasper wrote:I've long been curious what the long term effects of introducing psychoactive drugs to a developing mind and I think we are maybe seeing some of that with the behavior of this newest generation. I really don't think its one thing however. I do believe the issues go much deeper and the drug argument is just the tip of the iceberg. The disintegration of family, the loss of human contact with the advent of social media, the disassociation that comes with immersion in alternate realities represented by video games, the abandonment of faith, the over sexualization of society, the de-emphasis of empathy and sincerity, the manipulation of emotion by social media, the constant bombardment of the senses with cell phones ...............I could go on and on.................... I'm not ready to declare that all is lost, however, all of these situations have consequences and you would have to be a completely obtuse dullard to not see some correlation.

Each generation believes it successor is lost and yet time marches on and equilibrium is reached. I hope that remains the balance of the universe. I don't like the world where everything tips over.................

I have no doubt many of these people feel like they are eating the **** sandwich of life. The drugs just seem to be that missing link to them taking it to the next level.
Last edited by Ghost on Tue May 22, 2018 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This article hits the mark on school shootings

Postby yukonjasper on Tue May 22, 2018 10:03 am

Agreed.
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