Red Flag law and safety

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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby Sorcerer on Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:33 pm

Well if you think it’s coming, it might be coming, a red flag order, pick a brick an mortar gun shop and put every think on consignment at an elevated price and roll the dice that they won’t sell. That is if the red flag cr_p makes it through. Some one with an FFL could possibly make a living “ holding” firearms on consignment.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby Ghost on Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:47 pm

Sorcerer wrote:Well if you think it’s coming, it might be coming, a red flag order, pick a brick an mortar gun shop and put every think on consignment at an elevated price and roll the dice that they won’t sell. That is if the red flag cr_p makes it through. Some one with an FFL could possibly make a living “ holding” firearms on consignment.

Plan A would be to squash it like a bug.

Plan B would be to minimize the risk if plan A fails.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby xd ED on Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:57 pm

As proposed, the victim of the red flag won't know it's coming until there is someone at the door with a warrant. Whether they knock, or not... just depends.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:56 am

Ghost wrote:
Sorcerer wrote:Well if you think it’s coming, it might be coming, a red flag order, pick a brick an mortar gun shop and put every think on consignment at an elevated price and roll the dice that they won’t sell. That is if the red flag cr_p makes it through. Some one with an FFL could possibly make a living “ holding” firearms on consignment.

Plan A would be to squash it like a bug.

Plan B would be to minimize the risk if plan A fails.


I think plan A is to defeat this legislation. Keep them focused on cell phone use in cars instead.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby bstrawse on Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:05 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
Ghost wrote:
Sorcerer wrote:Well if you think it’s coming, it might be coming, a red flag order, pick a brick an mortar gun shop and put every think on consignment at an elevated price and roll the dice that they won’t sell. That is if the red flag cr_p makes it through. Some one with an FFL could possibly make a living “ holding” firearms on consignment.

Plan A would be to squash it like a bug.

Plan B would be to minimize the risk if plan A fails.


I think plan A is to defeat this legislation. Keep them focused on cell phone use in cars instead.


We are not going to try and "fix" this bill. We intend to kill it.

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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby Ghost on Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:37 am

bstrawse wrote:
We are not going to try and "fix" this bill. We intend to kill it.

Bryan

Good
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby photogpat on Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:40 am

I was a supporter of a "Red Flag" type law - with about 4 major modifications to it...

Then I realized the resultant bill I wanted looked EXACTLY like what we currently have in the Civil Commitment process - and the only point of "Red Flag" laws was to garner a WIN for gun control groups.

So -- eff em...I'm opposed.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby yukonjasper on Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:58 am

Is there really no mechanism in place that forces legislators to research the areas of any new bill they are proposing to identify whether an existing law could be amended? They have staff and I assume each of the committees is generally aware of the existing laws and would suggest an amendment over an entirely redundant or overreaching new law.

I think it was a Garage Logic idea to have alternating years of passing and nullifying laws no longer useful. Or, better yet, for every new law 2 laws have to be struck down. Sunset provisions in some areas would be great.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby bstrawse on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:03 pm

yukonjasper wrote:Is there really no mechanism in place that forces legislators to research the areas of any new bill they are proposing to identify whether an existing law could be amended? They have staff and I assume each of the committees is generally aware of the existing laws and would suggest an amendment over an entirely redundant or overreaching new law.

I think it was a Garage Logic idea to have alternating years of passing and nullifying laws no longer useful. Or, better yet, for every new law 2 laws have to be struck down. Sunset provisions in some areas would be great.


Nothing that forces it. There is a large non-partisan research staff in the House and Senate (and the revisors office) that help with legislation - they aren't always consulted.

I should clarify - the revisors office is involved in drafting any legislation - it's their advice that isn't always followed :)
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby Tronster on Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:11 pm

Does the MN red flag bill immediately give police a search warrant to enter a residence, or is it not a search warrant and they need to persuade (intimidate) the homeowner into letting them enter the residence to seize firearms? I've heard different states have different versions of this.
Last edited by Tronster on Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby Sorcerer on Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:51 pm

You can try to get in the way of a search warrant, but it would end badly for you. They would react in such a way that they may kill you.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:14 pm

Sorcerer wrote:You can try to get in the way of a search warrant, but it would end badly for you. They would react in such a way that they may kill you.


I think you misread the statement
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby gman1868 on Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:35 pm

Want to know more about Red Flag Laws? Here is a great summary by my friend Erik Pakieser:

Let's be realistic about this:

Police can obtain permission for a "no knock" dynamic entry if they have reason to believe a firearm is in the home.

In the case of serving these secret orders, there will always be firearms in the home.

A recent example of this took place in St. Paul. Because the target of a warrant was staying in a house owned by someone with a Permit to Carry, Minneapolis PD was authorized in the warrant to use a "no knock" dynamic entry. The smashed in the front door and stormed the home with a heavily-armed SWAT team, in the process shooting two dogs (killing one and wounding the other). The target of the warrant was not in the house.

So what this means, seriously, is that a judge can issue an order in secret, and the first time you will find out about it is when the police storms your house in the middle of the night, blasting your door off the hinges, smashing windows, throwing flash bangs, pointing machine guns at you, terrorizing your family and killing or endangering your pets.

Not to mention the possibility that you or someone you love might be killed in the process, as we saw happen recently in Maryland, and several other cases around the US, like the recent "swatting" case in Kansas. Or the many cases where the police raid the wrong house (maybe they are after your neighbor).

This law is very, very dangerous.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby crbutler on Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:26 pm

Don’t call the damn things “flash bangs”

They are concussion grenades.
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Re: Red Flag law and safety

Postby Ghost on Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:30 pm

crbutler wrote:Don’t call the damn things “flash bangs”

They are concussion grenades.

Semantics
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