why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

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why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby LarryFlew on Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:07 pm

Veteran on medical weed denied gun purchase. Won't take much looking around for them to deny purchase if all medical records can be put into NICS checks.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2019/08/21/v ... marijuana/
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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby bstrawse on Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:15 pm

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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:21 pm

Question 11 (e) on the 4477.
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside."

Answer yes and no gun for you. Answer no and you've committed a felony.

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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:40 pm

Yup. Not a hill I am going to fight over.
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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby LarryFlew on Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:18 am

Rip Van Winkle wrote:Question 11 (e) on the 4477.
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside."

Answer yes and no gun for you. Answer no and you've committed a felony.

Image


Exactly the problem. The question should not even be there. Think of all the questions they could just ad to come up with a deny. Have you ever taken a drug that is used for depression? If you ever had a med for anxiety you have and if you ever had a drug for about a third of heart problems the answer is yes which they can say makes you mentally impaired, deny. Have you ever been in a fight - violent temper, deny. Do you have children at home - putting family in d a anger, deny. Goes on and on. Need to only have actual PERTINENT questions.
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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby bstrawse on Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:52 am

LarryFlew wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:Question 11 (e) on the 4477.
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside."

Answer yes and no gun for you. Answer no and you've committed a felony.

Image


Exactly the problem. The question should not even be there. Think of all the questions they could just ad to come up with a deny. Have you ever taken a drug that is used for depression? If you ever had a med for anxiety you have and if you ever had a drug for about a third of heart problems the answer is yes which they can say makes you mentally impaired, deny. Have you ever been in a fight - violent temper, deny. Do you have children at home - putting family in d a anger, deny. Goes on and on. Need to only have actual PERTINENT questions.


Federal law has a prohibition on possession of firearms or ammunition by a unlawful user of controlled substances, etc. Isn't the question on the 4473 therefore pertinent?

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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby BigBlue on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:15 am

Rip Van Winkle wrote:Question 11 (e) on the 4477.
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside."

Answer yes and no gun for you. Answer no and you've committed a felony.


Wonder how they expect an applicant to interpret that question? Does "are" imply "currently"? Or would one be lying if they smoked weed in high school back in '64 but not since? Or went to Colorado in 2018 and tried some local stuff but only that one time?

Personally, I'd interpret the question to mean "actively and currently/continually", but you know how lawyers and governments are...

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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:42 am

BigBlue wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:Question 11 (e) on the 4477.
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside."

Answer yes and no gun for you. Answer no and you've committed a felony.


Wonder how they expect an applicant to interpret that question? Does "are" imply "currently"? Or would one be lying if they smoked weed in high school back in '64 but not since? Or went to Colorado in 2018 and tried some local stuff but only that one time?

Personally, I'd interpret the question to mean "actively and currently/continually", but you know how lawyers and governments are...

BB


Well, I have never touched the stuff so if anyone needs to become compliant you can contact me to pick up all your firearms and ammunition for a small processing fee.
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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby andrewP on Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:13 am

I think it's mildly silly that weed is on the federal controlled substance list, but until such time as it becomes federally legalized, this is just one of many "gotchas" people have to be aware of when purchasing guns. It's not like any of this stuff is a secret, and reading the plain language on the form makes it pretty clear how the government would interpret it, so...
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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby LarryFlew on Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:24 am

bstrawse wrote:
LarryFlew wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:Question 11 (e) on the 4477.
"Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside."

Answer yes and no gun for you. Answer no and you've committed a felony.

Image


Exactly the problem. The question should not even be there. Think of all the questions they could just ad to come up with a deny. Have you ever taken a drug that is used for depression? If you ever had a med for anxiety you have and if you ever had a drug for about a third of heart problems the answer is yes which they can say makes you mentally impaired, deny. Have you ever been in a fight - violent temper, deny. Do you have children at home - putting family in d a anger, deny. Goes on and on. Need to only have actual PERTINENT questions. Federal law has a prohibition on possession of firearms or ammunition by a unlawful user of controlled substances, etc. Isn't the question on the 4473 therefore pertinent?


To me the question is should it be pertinent and what's stopping them from making any question they like fit that bill. This is especially true right now when mental illness seems to be the big question from all parties. This gal could have been taking many other drugs that may or may not help her PTSD and would not have to answer any question regarding depression etc (SO FAR)
Last edited by LarryFlew on Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby BigBlue on Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:27 am

BigBlue wrote:Wonder how they expect an applicant to interpret that question? Does "are" imply "currently"? Or would one be lying if they smoked weed in high school back in '64 but not since? Or went to Colorado in 2018 and tried some local stuff but only that one time?

Personally, I'd interpret the question to mean "actively and currently/continually", but you know how lawyers and governments are...

BB


Nobody has any thoughts on the 'currently' versus 'ever' aspect of the question?
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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby LarryFlew on Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:36 pm

I'd interpret the question the same as you mentioned - to mean "actively and currently/continually"
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Re: why medical records and gun laws should still be separate???

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:38 pm

LarryFlew wrote:I'd interpret the question the same as you mentioned - to mean "actively and currently/continually"

That would make the most sense. I think the prudent answer is to not give them cause to look deeper.
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