Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

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Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby mrp on Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:02 am

Received this yesterday from MN Gun Owners Caucus...


We've been made aware that several County Sheriffs throughout the state are now requiring appointments in order to submit an application for a Minnesota Permit to Carry - and then are restricting the number of appointments, substantially delaying the application process contrary to state law.

We're aware of this happening presently in Hennepin, Ramsey, Olmsted, Washington, and Saint Louis Counties - but there may be more.

Some folks are having to wait 2-3 months to even get an appointment. This is completely unacceptable!

If you've been impacted by this issue, please complete this short form https://www.facebook.com/gunownersmn/ so that we can pursue appropriate legal action. [NOTE: I've replaced the link to the form itself with a link to their facebook page for security reasons. They posted about this yesterday morning and you can find the link there.]

We have retained outside counsel and intend to take appropriate legal action to address this issue. If you've been impacted or know someone who has, please have them complete the form at the link above.

Yours in Liberty,
Bryan Strawser
Chair

P.S. If you've been delayed by your County Sheriff in applying for your Permit to Carry because they are requiring appointments - be sure to complete this form. If you're able to contribute to help our support fund pursue this case in the courts, please consider making a tax-deductible donation at https://www.gunowners.mn/support_fund_donation.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby bstrawse on Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:00 pm

Thanks for sharing this!
Bryan
Chair, Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus & Minnesota Gun Owners Political Action Committee - Join the Caucus TODAY
MN Permit to Carry Instructor| NRA Instructor | NRA Chief Range Safety Officer | Twitter | Facebook
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby daleamn on Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:52 pm

I certainly support this effort and REALLY appreciate the efforts of bstrawse in particular but it's not just guns that are impacted. Reports are that getting a vehicle title also requires an appointment and the delays are weeks there too. Do you think we can expect some relief when "Covid" seems to be an accepted excuse for, well, almost anything?
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby mrp on Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:21 pm

daleamn wrote:I certainly support this effort and REALLY appreciate the efforts of bstrawse in particular but it's not just guns that are impacted. Reports are that getting a vehicle title also requires an appointment and the delays are weeks there too. Do you think we can expect some relief when "Covid" seems to be an accepted excuse for, well, almost anything?



Restrictions on a constitutionally recognized and protected right should be fail safe. The 30 day limit was enacted specifically to prevent the government from being able to restrict carry by frustrating the process. When the process fails, for whatever reason, then the restriction ought to be suspended until such time as the government is again ready to comply with the law. The statute says:

(b) Failure of the sheriff to notify the applicant of the denial of the application within 30 days after the date of receipt of the application packet constitutes issuance of the permit to carry and the sheriff must promptly fulfill the requirements under paragraph (c).


The state has automatically extended the expiration dates on drivers licences. They have not done so on permits to carry. I've yet to hear any reasonable explanation for that.


What issues does a delayed title transfer cause? I've never been in a situation where it has mattered how long it takes the state to process and issue a title. But at any rate, I'd argue that the solution to those problems would be to suspend any adverse consequences until such time as the government is ready and willing to perform the duties it has imposed upon itself. In the case of permits to carry, any wounds the government suffers due to their inability to implement their own rules are self-inflicted. Constitutional carry ought to be seen as the starting position, and it ought to revert back to that automatically when things go to ****.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby Bearcatrp on Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:08 pm

Stearns county was fairly fast processing mine I did last month. Think it was around 3 weeks.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby daleamn on Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:43 pm

Restrictions on a constitutionally recognized and protected right should be fail safe.

Totally agree!

The state has automatically extended the expiration dates on drivers licences. They have not done so on permits to carry.

???
Wow. Talk about your double standard! I bet they (the government) have not provided a rationale for this.

The thing about an automobile title transfer is not that it is taking the state a long time to get you a new title (there does not seem to be a delay in this process this summer anyway) it is that you need to make an appointment with them to come in and present the paperwork to do the title transfer. Personally I have been burned in the past by a guy that bought a car from me and never registered the title. He got into some bad stuff and the police came to me because the car was still in my name. I showed them the little tearoff from the title with the buyer's name on it and I was pleasantly surprised that the cops accepted this.

If I were to sell a car today I would insist the buyer and I go down to the DMV and do the transfer together. We can't do that now...we have to make an "appointment" to do it and an appointment is weeks into the future. I suspect a buyer wouldn't want to wait this long but I am adamant (and quite possibly unreasonable) that I won't sell a vehicle without doing this.

All that said I CERTAINLY support what you are doing and thank you for doing it and wish you the best.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby linksep on Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:00 pm

Washington Co was about a month delay to get an agreeable morning appointment. My wife dropped off her application 10/2 and her permit was in the mailbox today 10/9. I dropped off my application 10/5... We'll see if it shows up Monday.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:05 am

When government ceases to function for the people they cease to be government and become tyranny.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby andrewP on Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:43 am

daleamn wrote:Reports are that getting a vehicle title also requires an appointment and the delays are weeks there too. Do you think we can expect some relief when "Covid" seems to be an accepted excuse for, well, almost anything?


Most cities are requiring appointments, yes, but at least some of them have drop boxes set up for the purpose of processing paperwork like titles. I used a drop box when I acquired a car this summer, and it worked out mostly OK. The only hitch was that it turned out that due to the circumstances surrounding the transfer, I needed an additional piece of seemingly extraneous paperwork, and there was a delay between when I dropped off the title transfer in the drop box and when I was notified of the issue. It was nothing tragic, but I feel that the process would have been faster in person. YMMV, of course.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby linksep on Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:09 pm

My Washington Co. issued permit was in today's mail...5 days from application to permit in my wallet.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:02 pm

andrewP wrote:
daleamn wrote:Reports are that getting a vehicle title also requires an appointment and the delays are weeks there too. Do you think we can expect some relief when "Covid" seems to be an accepted excuse for, well, almost anything?


Most cities are requiring appointments, yes, but at least some of them have drop boxes set up for the purpose of processing paperwork like titles. I used a drop box when I acquired a car this summer, and it worked out mostly OK. The only hitch was that it turned out that due to the circumstances surrounding the transfer, I needed an additional piece of seemingly extraneous paperwork, and there was a delay between when I dropped off the title transfer in the drop box and when I was notified of the issue. It was nothing tragic, but I feel that the process would have been faster in person. YMMV, of course.


Because of what? A virus without a vaccine? What a novel concept.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby andrewP on Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:44 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:
andrewP wrote:
daleamn wrote:Reports are that getting a vehicle title also requires an appointment and the delays are weeks there too. Do you think we can expect some relief when "Covid" seems to be an accepted excuse for, well, almost anything?


Most cities are requiring appointments, yes, but at least some of them have drop boxes set up for the purpose of processing paperwork like titles. I used a drop box when I acquired a car this summer, and it worked out mostly OK. The only hitch was that it turned out that due to the circumstances surrounding the transfer, I needed an additional piece of seemingly extraneous paperwork, and there was a delay between when I dropped off the title transfer in the drop box and when I was notified of the issue. It was nothing tragic, but I feel that the process would have been faster in person. YMMV, of course.


Because of what? A virus without a vaccine? What a novel concept.


If you're asking if my extra paperwork was due to the virus, no, it was not. It was a circumstance specific to the car acquisition in question.

If, on the other hand, you're mocking the idea that it's OK to make basic functions of government even more inconvenient than they normally are, I'm right there with you.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby Holland&Holland on Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:23 am

The 2nd.
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Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby dismal on Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:27 am

The Olmsted county sheriff was on KROC AM this morning, he stated that the number of applications for permits has increased greatly. They usually had 1 person working on permits full time, now they have five.

He also stated that one reason why they are requiring appointments (besides COVID) was to limit the number of applicants so they could meet the 30 day statutory requirement for permit turnaround. I don’t accept that explanation, but it’s good to see their reasoning.
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Re: Permit delays - MN Gun Owners Caucus needs your help

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:55 pm

dismal wrote:The Olmsted county sheriff was on KROC AM this morning, he stated that the number of applications for permits has increased greatly. They usually had 1 person working on permits full time, now they have five.

He also stated that one reason why they are requiring appointments (besides COVID) was to limit the number of applicants so they could meet the 30 day statutory requirement for permit turnaround. I don’t accept that explanation, but it’s good to see their lies.

Fixed it for you.
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