Feds finalize tighter regulations on gun stabilizing braces

[Holland&Holland]

Okay so let me get my head around this-
Hypothetically speaking, if I built a totally awesome 300AAC upper with a 9" barrel, the Minnesota DNR says it qualifies as a legal deer-taking handgun in areas south of the rifle/shotgun border. And although it hypothetically has a buffer tube, (totally cool folding adapter) and brace, the DNR still says it's a pistol.

Now comes the ATF....hypothetically since I paired that upper with a standard AR lower complete with the previously-mentioned std buffer tube and BRACE, they say it's a short-barreled rifle (SBR) because of that brace and the fact that the barrel is -again hypothetically- 9".
So between now (let's say Jan 31) and May 31 I can either A) destroy the upper (bahahahaha!) -or- B) turn it in to the ATF (bahahahahaha!) -or- C) remove the brace and alter it so it can't be remounted and register the remaining ensemble with the ATF and they'll kindly waive the $200 registration fee (uh huh) -or- D) take off the 9" barrel and put on a 16" barrel but I can keep the brace on it because according to them, it has enough surface area to shoot from the shoulder....and the only way one can now own a brace is if it's on a "rifle".

BUT- now the DNR will say I no longer have a pistol, but now it's a rifle. [head starting to hurt]

I suspect the DNR allowed them because they thought they would loose the argument and now they know they will not so....

[gun_fan111v2]

Okay so let me get my head around this-
Hypothetically speaking, if I built a totally awesome 300AAC upper with a 9" barrel, the Minnesota DNR says it qualifies as a legal deer-taking handgun in areas south of the rifle/shotgun border. And although it hypothetically has a buffer tube, (totally cool folding adapter) and brace, the DNR still says it's a pistol.

Now comes the ATF....hypothetically since I paired that upper with a standard AR lower complete with the previously-mentioned std buffer tube and BRACE, they say it's a short-barreled rifle (SBR) because of that brace and the fact that the barrel is -again hypothetically- 9".
So between now (let's say Jan 31) and May 31 I can either A) destroy the upper (bahahahaha!) -or- B) turn it in to the ATF (bahahahahaha!) -or- C) remove the brace and alter it so it can't be remounted and register the remaining ensemble with the ATF and they'll kindly waive the $200 registration fee (uh huh) -or- D) take off the 9" barrel and put on a 16" barrel but I can keep the brace on it because according to them, it has enough surface area to shoot from the shoulder....and the only way one can now own a brace is if it's on a "rifle".

BUT- now the DNR will say I no longer have a pistol, but now it's a rifle. [head starting to hurt]

If you remove the brace (your option C), you do not have to register with ATF and the firearm will remain a pistol.

You are highlighting a very good point though. Will those that use their AR pistols with a brace to hunt in the shotgun/pistol zone be able to keep using it if they choose to register it as SBR? Anything from DNR on SBRs?

[nhluke]

I asked a dnr officer if sbrs could be used in shotgun znes and was told no. Similar to how (I believe) you can't have an sbr in your car with a ptc in MN. Neither of these might not be true but it's what I was told.

[Holland&Holland]

I asked a dnr officer if sbrs could be used in shotgun znes and was told no. Similar to how (I believe) you can't have an sbr in your car with a ptc in MN. Neither of these might not be true but it's what I was told.

Why can’t you have a sbr in your car if you have a ptc?

[ex-LT]

I asked a dnr officer if sbrs could be used in shotgun znes and was told no. Similar to how (I believe) you can't have an sbr in your car with a ptc in MN. Neither of these might not be true but it's what I was told.

Why can’t you have a sbr in your car if you have a ptc?

I suspect what he meant to say was "you can't legally transport a loaded, uncased SBR in your car with a PTC."

[gun_fan111v2]

Does the car rule apply to SBR or AR Pistol or both? I thought I read on this site it was for AR Pistols.

[crbutler]

IANAL

The permit is for carry of a handgun. An AR pistol is legally a handgun.

So an AR pistol is legal in the car as a CCW because it’s a handgun. Kind of hard to conceal, but legal.

Similarly you can use either a shotgun or handgun to hunt deer in the southern zone- my only reason to get an AR pistol- SBR is for range fun in my opinion, the pistol is not as useful… The AR pistol is a handgun. The SBR, or any other rifle is not… of course the logic of this escapes me (having seen guys hunting with .300 weatherby bolt action handcannons) but that’s the rule.

I guess I will pull the brace from my deer gun. No big deal to me, other than it’s stupid.

[atomic41]

I asked a dnr officer if sbrs could be used in shotgun znes and was told no. Similar to how (I believe) you can't have an sbr in your car with a ptc in MN. Neither of these might not be true but it's what I was told.

Why can’t you have a sbr in your car if you have a ptc?

Because of the "R" in SBR. It's a rifle. PTC is for pistol, not rifle.

[jdege]

Because of the "R" in SBR. It's a rifle. PTC is for pistol, not rifle.

The law forbidding carry of rifles in public has an exception for people with a permit to carry a handgun.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/2022/cite/624.7181?keyword_type=all&keyword=624.714


The laws forbidding carry of rifles in cars during hunting season do not.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/2022/cite/97B.045?keyword_type=all&keyword=624.714
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/2022/cite/97B.041?keyword_type=all&keyword=624.714

[gun_fan111v2]

What happens when you have a registered SBR but you take the brace off? Does it become a pistol and you are safe to go hunting?

I guess building another pistol lower is cheap enough too, then you can move the upper from SBR to Pistol depending on the need.

[Holland&Holland]

IANAL

The permit is for carry of a handgun. An AR pistol is legally a handgun.

So an AR pistol is legal in the car as a CCW because it’s a handgun. Kind of hard to conceal, but legal.

Similarly you can use either a shotgun or handgun to hunt deer in the southern zone- my only reason to get an AR pistol- SBR is for range fun in my opinion, the pistol is not as useful… The AR pistol is a handgun. The SBR, or any other rifle is not… of course the logic of this escapes me (having seen guys hunting with .300 weatherby bolt action handcannons) but that’s the rule.

I guess I will pull the brace from my deer gun. No big deal to me, other than it’s stupid.

Ouch! .300 weatherby out of a handgun can't be enjoyable.

[xd ED]

What happens when you have a registered SBR but you take the brace off? Does it become a pistol and you are safe to go hunting?

I guess building another pistol lower is cheap enough too, then you can move the upper from SBR to Pistol depending on the need.

I believe a pistol can become a rifle, but a rifle can never become a pistol; even if the rifle was once a pistol.

[xd ED]

I asked a dnr officer if sbrs could be used in shotgun znes and was told no. Similar to how (I believe) you can't have an sbr in your car with a ptc in MN. Neither of these might not be true but it's what I was told.

Why can’t you have a sbr in your car if you have a ptc?

Because of the "R" in SBR. It's a rifle. PTC is for pistol, not rifle.

A pistol can be carried in a vehicle. Under most circumstances, a long gun must be ‘transported ‘...

[Bergie]

I'll chime back in- I spoke to a DNR guy at the Fair and he told me that if he sees me using my AR 'pistol' (with brace) as a pistol taking a deer, he won't care. But if he sees me using the brace as a shoulder-fired gun taking the deer, he'll confiscate it, etc.

Regardless, -back to insanity- if I even remove the brace and replace it with a std M4-style stock, having the 9" barrel in it still requires it to be registered in the 120 days, right?
So if for some reason this ATF thing stays on the books, the only way to not have to register anything is to swap out the 9 to a 16" and throw away the brace. (?)

[gun_fan111v2]

Remove the brace and throw that away and you have a pistol again that does not need to be registered and can be used with a shorter barrel. Put in a pistol buffer tube if you want to remove all traces of the brace.

Edit: the moment you put an M4 style stock on it, you have an SBR. I would not do that until you have the stamp in your pocket.