Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

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Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

Postby jdege on Fri May 12, 2023 9:01 am

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3653555
Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution
Abstract
“Red flag” laws, or “extreme risk protection orders”, have been enacted in several states. While the idea for these laws is reasonable, some statutes are not. They destroy due process of law, endanger law enforcement and the public, and can be handy tools for stalkers and abusers to disarm their innocent victims. Many order are improperly issued against innocent people.

The Conference of Chief Justices asked the Uniform Law Commissioners to draft a national model red flag law, but the Giffords organization blocked the effort — lest it offer an alternative to the extreme and reckless system being pushed by Giffords and related groups, most notably the Bloomberg entities.

When Confucius was asked what would be the first step if a government sought his advice, he answered, “It would certainly be to rectify the names. . . . If the names are not correct, language is without an object.” Bills that claim to be about “Extreme Risk Protection Orders” are not correct; the bills cover much lower-level risks, or just “a danger.” Likewise, the term “red flag” is dubious because some bills label as dangerous the peaceable exercise of constitutional rights. A more accurate name for these laws is “gun confiscation orders.”

Such orders can be legitimate when fair procedures accurately identify dangerous individuals. Such laws include the following features:

  • Petitions initiated by law enforcement, not by spurned dating partners or relationships from long ago.
  • Ex parte hearings only when there is proof of necessity.
  • Proof by clear and convincing evidence that has been corroborated.
  • Guarantees of all due process rights, including cross-examination and right to counsel.
  • Court-appointed counsel if the respondent so wishes.
  • A civil remedy for victims of false and malicious petitions.
  • Safe and orderly procedures for relinquishment of firearms.
  • Strict controls on no-knock raids.
  • Storage of relinquished firearms by responsible third parties.
  • Prompt restoration of concealed carry permits for the falsely accused.
  • Prompt return of firearms upon the termination of an order.
  • Renewal of orders based on presentation of clear and convincing proof.
  • Not allowing time-limited orders to be bootstrapped into lifetime federal prohibition.


This is a paper by David Kopel regarding Extreme Risk Protection Orders (Red Flag Laws), describing how they should be implemented, how politicking by the anti-gun groups has resulted in them being implemented, how they've been used, and how they've been abused, and supporting the proposition that the laws that the anti-gun groups have been advocating were intended to be abused.

It's a good resource, for any involved in the debate.
Last edited by jdege on Fri May 12, 2023 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri May 12, 2023 9:13 am

No, you don’t say? Pretty certain our resident proponent of this assured us the intent was not to take away any freedoms from law abiding citizens.
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Re: Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

Postby jdege on Fri May 12, 2023 9:19 am

Holland&Holland wrote:No, you don’t say? Pretty certain our resident proponent of this assured us the intent was not to take away any freedoms from law abiding citizens.

Perhaps, but in their minds being a conservative should be against the law.

Always remember, they don't want a world without guns, they want a world without gun owners.
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Re: Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

Postby Lumpy on Fri May 12, 2023 7:09 pm

I presume our proposed Red Flag law has few or none of these protective features?
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Re: Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri May 12, 2023 8:29 pm

jdege wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:No, you don’t say? Pretty certain our resident proponent of this assured us the intent was not to take away any freedoms from law abiding citizens.

Perhaps, but in their minds being a conservative should be against the law.

Always remember, they don't want a world without guns, they want a world without gun owners.

Bingo
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Re: Red Flag Laws: Proceed with Caution

Postby jdege on Sat May 13, 2023 7:29 am

Lumpy wrote:I presume our proposed Red Flag law has few or none of these protective features?

Yep.
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