Gun control debate hangs over U.S.-Mexico violence

[elmerfuddem]

These weapons were intercepted by Border Enforcement Security Task Force officers and displayed at a press conference held at the Port of Los Angeles, December 4, 2008, to announce the launch of the nation's first seaport Border Enforcement Security Task Force (BEST).
http://www.coastguardchannel.com/cgi-bi ... ge=14&_kw=

[princewally]

That says nothing about the guns except that they were seized. Incoming, or outgoing would be a nice data point.

[Vlad]

lots of bolt, pump and even a couple of lever guns. Anyone see a rifle that is on the "ban" list?

[Stradawhovious]

3 SKS in the middle. I think.

[Vlad]

OK, now I see them. But 3 out of what 50 you can see in the pic?? where is the evil AR15s, and Barrett 50 cal???

[EJSG19]

OK, now I see them. But 3 out of what 50 you can see in the pic?? where is the evil AR15s, and Barrett 50 cal???

Some LEO's private gun safe? I mean... evidence room...

[Stradawhovious]

This just in, a picture of one of the .50 cal assault rifles they confiscated, as well as all of the assault accessories was just released publicly. I was fortunate enough to get a pic for you guys.

[elmerfuddem]

* Border-related arms and ammunition smuggling investigations in Texas and Arizona have led to numerous criminal arrests and the seizure of thousands of rounds of ammunition and multiple firearms, including a cache of AK-47 assault rifles destined for Mexico. ICE will continue to establish new BESTs in areas where transnational criminal organizations exploit vulnerabilities along the nation's border. These new task forces will focus on all aspects of the enforcement process, from interdiction to prosecution and removal.
http://www.huntingtonnews.net/columns/0 ... ement.html

In addition to the sniper rifle, investigators seized a Norinko SKS assault rifle, eight semi-automatic handguns, one silencer, 3,500 rounds of ammunition and various weapons components. As part of the enforcement action, investigators also arrested five individuals. They are expected to face a variety of federal and state charges.
http://www.svherald.com/articles/2008/0 ... 211328.txt
http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases ... tucson.htm

Federal agents and local police assigned to a border security task force have seized two homemade bombs, material for 33 more, grenades, machine gun assembly kits and other weapons, drugs and cash in separate raids in Laredo, Texas.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... 444-9836r/

[1911fan]

Believe me, this is nothing compared to what you can buy on certain streets in certain places all over Central America

[Dick Unger]

This is baloney. Obama's people have gotten a lot of Brady support, but could not win without some lip service to the 2A crowd. Brady wants results for their money and support of Obama, who sat on the Joyce Board of Directors.
Now, people will believe anything the goverment says if they call it "national security". And the gun control crowd is percieved as a bunch of conservative who are especially susceptible to arguements based on "national security", because conservatives always beat that drum.

It's like Mexican gangs buy guns here, take them illegally into Mexico, then come back (with the guns again) to kidnap people and otherwise terrorize us with the same guns. Effective, unfortunately.

[rose359]

Corruption in the Mexican government has allowed arms to flow from the military to private hands. We can stop that by ending sales to the Mexican government.

How are we expected to restrict Russian arms for entering Mexico?

Holder is using the border issue as a tool to restrict your freedoms. He did it under Clinton/Reno and he is picking up where he left off. How about some data? I would rather be directed by data than by theory, philosophy, and feel-good. We had the ban, followed by we didn't have the ban, and the result was .... the ban was a useless infringement on liberty. If you are going to take a person's freedom, you had better make a compelling case. All I hear is the chirp of crickets.

[elmerfuddem]

May 6, 2008
ATF: Phoenix Gun Dealer Supplied Mexican Drug Cartels
Hundreds of Powerful Weapons Seized
Just hours after receiving a shipment of weapons allegedly intended for Mexican drug bosses, a Phoenix gun dealer and at least two alleged arms traffickers were arrested this morning in a series of raids by federal and local authorities. Authorities allege the gun dealer sold more than 650 AK-47-type assault weapons to Mexican drug gangs responsible for recent shootouts that have claimed dozens of lives.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4796380&page=1

U.S. Is Arms Bazaar for Mexican Cartels
Feb 25, 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/us/26borders.html


Brady Campaign Says Weak U.S. Gun Laws Fueling Mexican Violence
By The Brady Campaign , To Prevent Gun Violence - March 09, 2009
Mexico’s escalating gun war with well-armed drug cartels has killed thousands of police, government officials, and ordinary citizens, and threatens the stability of the Mexican government. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, and President Obama have recognized that helping stem the violence in Mexico is of urgent national — and international — importance. American gun sellers supply the cartels with virtually all of their guns — between 95 and 100 percent. Recently, Mexico’s drug war has begun to wreak havoc in the U.S.
http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/n ... n-violence

Obama Bolsters Anti-Cartel Forces on U.S.-Mexico Border
By Opposing Views Editorial Staff , To Protect and Serve Opposing Views - March 24, 2009
http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/n ... ico-border

PHOENIX (Map, News) - An Arizona judge has dismissed criminal charges against a Phoenix gun shop owner accused of supplying firearms to Mexican drug cartels.
March 18, 2009
http://www.examiner.com/a-1912946~Charg ... n_out.html

Los Zetas: the Ruthless Army Spawned by a Mexican Drug Cartel
Los Zetas’ training as a local version of the Green Berets constitutes their foremost asset. In cooperation with their U.S. counterparts, the Mexican military created the Gafes in mid-1990s. Foreign specialists, including Americans, French, and Israelis, instructed members of this elite unit in rapid deployment, aerial assaults, marksmanship, ambushes, intelligence collection, counter-surveillance techniques, prisoner rescues, sophisticated communications, and the art of intimidation.
http://www.fpri.org/enotes/200805.grayson.loszetas.html

*MID 1990'S slick willy was US President then.*


The Ongoing Mexico Crisis -- Blaming American Gun Owners
Congress has jumped in with both feet when it comes to the crisis of violence in Mexico, and the usual suspects are once again blaming American gun owners and American gun laws. This week there were two more hearings, one in the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Drugs and Crime, and the other in the House Foreign Affairs subcommittee on Western Hemisphere. In both cases, anti-gun politicians such as Senators Dick Durbin and Dianne Feinstein, and Congressman Eliot Engel, blamed American gun laws for the crisis. Fortunately, in both hearings, gun rights supporters in Congress stood up for American gun owners.
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Feder ... px?id=4632

[elmerfuddem]

THE MEXICAN NAVY

MexNavy2.jpg (14.75 KB) Viewed 1913 times

notice the MP5 in the sailors hands

[Widge]

You and I Can't Buy the Guns Mexican Cartels Own
The Administration is Not Dealing Straight With Us on Mexico's Gun Problem

Ralph Weller
March 1 2009

Let's set things straight right up front. Yes, some guns are being smuggled into Mexico from the U.S. Most are handguns. But, handguns are being illegally trafficked from state to state and from the U.S. to Canada. It should come as no surprise that guns are smuggled into Mexico. But, the problem being portrayed by the U.S. media and our government is not as it seems. You see, Mexico doesn't allow ownership of most firearms, so ordinary Mexican people seeking self-protection will find a way to get them into Mexico. As for the drug cartels operating in the border towns along the U.S., they have other sources for their weapons and have become the prime supplier within Mexico.

I worked in Mexico in a border town for about five years. It was far enough from San Diego County in the Sonora Desert of Mexico that commuting several hundred miles daily was impossible. So, for a few years I lived in the city and commuted home periodically on some weekends. As crime grew out of control, I eventually moved into a place on the U.S. side and commuted daily in and out of Mexico for my own safety.

I stayed in Mexico for a Mexican holiday my first year. I don't recall the holiday. Normally, I would leave Mexico for a holiday, but it was in the middle of the week and one day was not long enough to come home. All I know is that on that particular Mexican holiday, Mexicans love to fire guns into the air. That evening as I sat on the balcony of my hotel, the gun fire that erupted in celebration was quite unbelievable. It was so intense I backed off the balcony and watched the festivities from a couple three feet in the room. We're talking war-like firing of weapons, it was that intense.

As I listened that night to the gun fire, I was somewhat shocked at the amount of fully automatic gun fire. It wasn't sporadic. It was continuous throughout the city. For a country that bans guns I thought, how in the world did they get their hands on all these full-auto weapons? Clearly what sounded like M16 fire was prolific along with 7.62 x 39 AK autos with a smattering of smaller caliber full-autos, most likely 9mm. Gun fire can be heard in most American cities on New Years, but I've never heard full-auto weapons being fired, at least not in the San Diego area.

The next day I went into work and sat down with a trusted senior Mexican manager. I looked at him and said, "I thought guns were illegal in Mexico." He chuckled and said, "So you stayed in town last night?" As the conversation progressed, it became clear that guns are as common in Mexico as tamales at Christmas. Everyone he knows, including himself, own at least one gun. And, it matters not whether it's a semi-auto or fully automatic, they're all illegal, so why stop with semi-autos? Though clearly illegal in the states in most instances, a lot of Mexicans have more firepower in terms of military weapons than we can only dream of owning here.

As time went on, parties in the city at middle class Mexican homes become a way of life. Most Mexican managers in the plant knew I was a gun wonk. As it turns out, they couldn't wait to invite me over to their place on a Friday night to show me their collection. Semi-autos, some very high-end Sigs and other European handguns were not uncommon along with piles of old revolvers. I thought I had seen everything in the states, but in Mexico it's not uncommon for people to own full-auto military rifles. Everything from an M16, UZI machine pistols and the most popular, select-fire AK47 military rifles. These are not the so-called "assault weapons" you can buy at the local gun shop in the U.S., but full select-fire military-issue rifles. Now, I know you want to know and are dying to ask; Did I see any U.S. military-issue weapons stolen from the U.S. military? Not a single one was marked with U.S. military markings. Everything was marked with additional foreign markings on the receiver, including M16 rifles, or they had nothing at all. I saw firearms manufactured in Europe, China, Russia and South America along with U.S. manufactured weapons. I saw rifles that looked familiar with no place of manufacture, no serial number or manufacturer's logo. The information was not removed, it was never there to begin with. I can only assume they came from illegal arms manufacturers in India or Pakistan that produce copies of weapons. It was obvious that none of these firearms came from a U.S. gun shop in Tucson or San Diego. You couldn't buy them from a gun shop in the states if you tried.

It seems Mexicans have a rich heritage of firearms ownership prior to the ban in 1968. Despite the laws against owning them, they ignore it. Most Mexicans will say they need it for personal protection of themselves and their family. The other reason is they don't trust the government or local law enforcement. If they have to use it in their home for self-defense, whether they end up in jail is all dependent on how much money they can come up with, or who they know in the government. It also depends on who they shoot. But, given the alternative with high crime rates, most middle class Mexicans willingly and without reservations take the risk. Despite being able to own .22 caliber pistols or rifles, Mexican law requires them to be stored at an approved firing range. Where's the firing range I asked many times? No one knew of one. Where's the gun stores in town to buy legal guns? Gun stores? No one ever recalled seeing one anywhere in Mexico, let alone their city. I'm sure somewhere, maybe in Mexico City you might be able to buy a gun, but not in this city of almost 1.5 million residents. And the gun traffickers know it.

Where do ordinary Mexicans get their weapons? Most buy them from a 'friend' or a friend of a friend or cousin or uncle. Where the friend gets them is not talked about. But, it seems that drug cartels in Mexico are heavily involved in gun trafficking of military weapons and related hardware. And, who are these ordinary Mexicans? They range from people who work in factories as managers and senior managers, government workers, doctors, dentists and anyone with the financial means to buy a firearm. I even ran into a couple of government bureaucrats, one a lawyer for the federal government who owns firearms. He confirmed that people he knew in the government, some very highly ranked bureaucrats and politicians all own illegal firearms. The other works for the Mexican equivalent of the IRS. It's a way of life in Mexico. It seemed to me that you aren't in the 'in-crowd' in Mexico unless you own at least one firearm. I was amazed at the whole thing after believing for years that gun ownership in Mexico was non-existent. That is hardly the case.

All this flies in the face of news articles published by the U.S. media in the last week or two. Mexico's gun problems are a direct result of gun runners buying "assault weapons" in the U.S. and taking them into Mexico to arm drug cartels, says the U.S. media and government. That is a bunch of government and media nonsense. The cartels aren't arming themselves from U.S. gun stores with semi-auto AR15 and AK47 rifles. They've moved on up. Not to completely dismiss arms moving into Mexico from the U.S., but it is not as it seems when the U.S. media tells the story. The firearms moving across the border are semi-auto rifles and handguns sold to middle class or wealthy Mexicans seeking personal protection from criminals that have no connections in Mexico with gun runners. For the most part the wealthy in Mexico are targets of criminal elements, so they have no intention of connecting up with them to buy a self-defense firearm. You're better off buying a weapon from someone within the Mexican government than buying it from the criminal element, namely a drug cartel.

Cartels buy their arms from countries around the world, most any place where military weapons can be purchased on the black market, or from countries wishing to destabilize North America. They arm themselves from a worldwide black market of full auto military weapons including grenades, land mines and RPGs. They also "procure" their weapons from the less than savory from within the Mexican military.

The drug cartels can easily afford to fly their weaponry into Mexico using their own fleet of aircraft on to remote airfields, or land them on remote Mexican shores from their fleet of vessels. They do it with drugs all of the time. Drug cartels buying semi-auto AR15 or AK rifles from U.S. gun dealers is viewed as a joke by Mexico's drug cartel, most Mexicans, and unfortunately by the Mexican government. The only people fooled by all the political rhetoric are Americans listening to the likes of Attorney General Eric Holder and other anti-gun politicians.

Mexico has a gun problem, just like they have a drug problem and both the U.S. and Mexican governments are trying to place the blame on U.S. gun owners. U.S. gun owners aren't the problem. Mexico is the problem. The government is corrupt from the lowest level law enforcement officer shaking down American tourists for traffic violations, to officials and politicians highly placed within the Mexican government, including elements within the military. Everyone knows it. Everyone in Mexico knows it. Every law enforcement official in the U.S. knows it, and everyone in our government knows it. And anyone who has worked for any length of time within border cities and lived in the local community knows it. This is taking a Mexican problem, blaming the U.S. by turning it into a crisis in order further an agenda, and Eric Holder and President Obama knows it and they are taking advantage of it.

The next time you see a news report of illegal full-auto weapons and grenades being found here in the U.S., you know where they came from. It wasn't from a gun store in Tucson or Phoenix. The administration is right that gun trafficking along the U.S./Mexico border is a problem. Not only do we have drugs and illegal aliens coming in our southern border, but we also have military arms and explosives coming into our country illegally as well. That's the issue and our government is being disingenuous in its argument.

This AP news report published today is typical of what is going on. It is disgustingly biased and flat wrong: AP report for Detroit Free Press

Don't believe me and what I say? See what the Latin American Herald is saying about a recent arrest of cartel members and their weaponry in Mexico. No, the items listed weren't purchased at a gun store in Phoenix or Tucson. Grenades and RPGs are illegal in the U.S.: LAH Story


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Mexico Arrests Cartel Hit Man in Execution of Army General

MEXICO CITY -- A rogue ex-soldier and presumed head of a group of Gulf cartel enforcers in the Mexican resort city of Cancun has been arrested on charges he ordered the killing of retired Gen. Mauro Enrique Tello Quiñones and 10 other military men, officials said.

The Defense Secretariat, or Sedena, and the federal Attorney General's Office announced Wednesday the detention of Octavio Almanza Moreles, alias "El Gori 4," and six other members of the Gulf drug mob.

Almanza is accused of ordering an attack that resulted in the deaths of Tello Quiñones, army Lt. Getulio Cesar Roman Zuñiga and a civilian, Juan Dominguez Sanchez, whose bodies - which bore gunshot wounds and signs of torture - were found last week on a road near Cancun.

Tello Quiñones, who had served as military attache at the Mexican Embassy in Spain and as commander of the military zone of the western state of Michoacan, had recently been hired by the Cancun city government to help weed out corruption and revamp the local police force.

Almanza, who also is blamed for masterminding the murder of nine soldiers in the northern state of Nuevo Leon last October, was an army soldier from 1997 until 2004, when he and brothers Raymundo and Eduardo left the military to join Los Zetas, a group of hit men for the Gulf cartel.

Officials said he is suspected of leading Los Zetas in Cancun, a leading Mexican tourist destination that is one of the main points of entry for cocaine from Central and South America. According to Sedena, Almanza served as a lieutenant for one of the Gulf cartel's kingpins, Sigifredo Najera.

A top prosecutor in the AG office's Siedo organized-crime unit, Maricela Morales; and Gen. Luis Alberto Oliver, a top Sedena official, said the arrest of Almanza and six of his underlings was effected thanks to an anonymous tip.

In the operation, the Mexican army also seized 23 assault rifles, 20 handguns, 23 grenades, two grenade launchers, a rocket launcher, cartridges and ammunition clips, $42,000 worth of cash, six vehicles and radio equipment.

The Mexican AG Office said Monday that Cancun police chief Francisco Velasco Delgado had been detained, apparently in connection with the murder of Tello Quiñones.

Armed groups linked to the cartels murdered around 2,700 people in 2007 and 1,500 in 2006, with the 2008 death toll soaring to 5,630, according to a tally by the Mexico City daily El Universal.

According to press reports, some 750 people have died in drug-related violence across Mexico so far this year.

Since taking office in late 2006, Mexican President Felipe Calderon has deployed federal police and soldiers nationwide in a crackdown on drug gangs battling over supply routes to the United States.

But that anti-drug effort has thus far been unsuccessful in stemming the violence due, according to experts, to drug cartels' ability to buy off the police and even high-ranking prosecutors. EFE

Link to the Latin American Herald Tribune article referenced above

[Widge]

In addition to the sniper rifle, investigators seized a Norinko SKS assault rifle, eight semi-automatic handguns, one silencer, 3,500 rounds of ammunition and various weapons components.

Bastards have fished up my gun safe again after the tragic boating accident! (except for the silencer your Honor, honest!)