TNT Custom Gunleather

[Paul]

Lesson 1) Do not post on a gun forum unless you are preppared to argue.

I am going to add that to my class ciriculum for the Minnesota SBP training...

Remember to hug too.

[Holland&Holland]

Lesson 1) Do not post on a gun forum unless you are preppared to argue.

I am going to add that to my class ciriculum for the Minnesota SBP training...

Remember to hug too.

That will be covered in the advanced course...Still working on a fee structure for that

[45usp45]

I have purchased from Mr Manley of K&D holsters and he is a good man to deal with.
I see what he is concerned about and see the similarities enough so that I will make it a point to not do business with tnt.
Looking at the sites it should take little effort to see who the stand up guy is.

[rtk]

Yep...Kevin is a stand up guy and a world renowned holster maker. Welcome Kevin.

RTK

[K&D_Holsters]

Do you have a patent on the holster in question? Is he using your name for advertisement or as a product comparison?

If not, what's the big deal, and why do you care?

I'm not here to argue. We do not have a patent on the holster(s) in question. However, there is a facet of the law called trademark dress. What that means, in essence, is that if a maker of a product produces a copy that a reasonable person would be led to believe is the work of another, then they are in violation of that aspect. I believe I have the right to protect my work.

I've sent an inquiry to TNTCustom Leather asking for the name of the owner. It was a natural progression IMO of trying to find out who this person is that the odds were pretty great that they would be known to the membership of a Minnesota gun forum. If it is who I now think it is (based on the user name mentioned), they are a prior customer of ours. They ordered, amongst other holsters, our Laredo Defender and our Pocket Defender 2n1.

I did not post the link to our site to "advertise." It was done simply for people to compare TNT Custom Leather's holster(s) to ours. If I was here to advertise, I would have done it months ago, as I've been perusing this site after Joel's closed down.

[Stradawhovious]

I did not post the link to our site to "advertise." It was done simply for people to compare TNTGunleather's holster(s) to ours.

From the original post

I noticed they were cloning two of our holsters - our Laredo Defender and Pocket Defender 2n1.

I will disagree. Your first post was not to have people here compare hosters, it was to accuse the TNT holster company of stealing your design, which is a fairly bold advertising tactic used by all sorts of people.

I don't want to start a fight either, but if the proprieter of the accused company is truly part of this board, maybe you and this person can have some rational discussion about where the ideas came from before the accusations fly. Like others have pointed out, many holster designs look virtually the same whether they are from the large macro producers or the hobbyist. Besides, if you truly feel that this person infringed on your intellectual property, there are other (read legal) channels to go through that will yield better results. And to be perfecty clear, I have no loyalty one way or another since I don't own holsters from either of you, and today was the first time I have heard of both companies. Your design could very well have been stolen, I'm just thinking there might be a chance of another explaination.

BTW, Welcome to the board, and after perusing your website it looks like you have a mighty nice product. And remember, if all else fails, imitation is the highest form of compliment.

[K&D_Holsters]

I will disagree. Your first post was not to have people here compare hosters, it was to accuse the TNT holster company of stealing your design, which is a fairly bold advertising tactic used by all sorts of people.

I don't want to start a fight either, but if the proprieter of the accused company is truly part of this board, maybe you and this person can have some rational discussion about where the ideas came from before the accusations fly. Like others have pointed out, many holster designs look virtually the same whether they are from the large macro producers or the hobbyist. Besides, if you truly feel that this person infringed on your intellectual property, there are other (read legal) channels to go through that will yield better results. And to be perfecty clear, I have no loyalty one way or another since I don't own holsters from either of you, and today was the first time I have heard of both companies. Your design could very well have been stolen, I'm just thinking there might be a chance of another explaination.

BTW, Welcome to the board, and after perusing your website it looks like you have a mighty nice product. And remember, if all else fails, imitation is the highest form of compliment.

We'll just have to disagree on the point of whether my intent was to advertise. Once I verify who the owner is in fact, then it is my intent to take the initial steps of legal remedies available to me. However, I'm certainly open to a solution outside of those channels.

[justaguy]

Don't taunt the original poster. He asked a basic question. Answer it or not, stop looking for a fight.

I'm with JoeH on this one. The guy has some legitimate concerns and we should be here to help anyone that requests it.

K&D I wish you the best of luck getting to the bottom of your issue. Pleas dont judge our forum by the few rude encounters that you have had today.

[mmcnx2]

I'm with Strad on this one.

It appears Safariland also has a version that from website illustrations it could be argued who copied whom.

http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=529

[mitchx3]

This all sounds like trade libel to me.

[JJ]

This all sounds like trade libel to me.

This was all just a test

[hammAR]

This was all just a test

Yep, and the mod-squad failed, leading by example once again by beating up on a new member..........

deja vu all over again......

[EJSG19]

With there being only a limited number of ways to wrap leather around a gun, I'm surprised this issue doesn't come up more often.

OWB pancake holster? IWB? How many different ways can a holster ride on a belt? Not many, at least from 90% of holster makers I've seen.

Be that as it may, the OP has as much right to ask a question here as anyone. If something fishy is going on, by all means I hope it becomes apparent. Maybe whoever is on the other side wasn't aware, and should be given the benefit of the doubt. If not, well, those legal avenues will tell the tale.

Meanwhile, the rest of the drama seems like another one of the great internet debates. Circular and pointless, and the source of much speculation. OP is on one side, owner of TNT on the other. Everyone else... unless they have a helpful lead, is a Master Debater.

[hammAR]

Is K & D really in FL..............

[lance22]

I remember a couple of years ago on another forum, a holster maker whom I will not name was concerned that a newcomer had copied his work. Just as that thread was devolving into a mix of libel & thread trolling, one of the guys from Milt Sparks chimed in. Now, the Versa Max II is undoubtedly the most copied holster on the planet, but he explained why they don't pursue those who copy the concept - it's hard to prove, and at the same time the new holster makers really don't crank out enough units to be a threat. At Milt Sparks they are busier than ever despite the fact that almost every holster maker in the business has copied their ideas. Matt DelFatti was also on that forum and added a few words. Same deal, it's not worth it and it hasn't hurt demand for the genuine article.

A novice can copy a look, sort of. But they can't imitate the quality of a master. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. BTW, I own and wear a K&D for my Kimber Tac II. It's a fine holster and I greatly appreciate your hard work.



My .02 for the very little that it's worth.