New news about the Sig brace...

[Bearcatrp]

Its BS to have to pay 200 bucks and wait countless months just to get approved for an SBR. One of the reasons folks try to go around it. If the idiots (ATF) would just include the tax when purchasing a SBR, or the parts to build one, and leave it at that, they would get there money allot faster. Folks still have to get checked by the FFL so they know its not going to some criminal. Oh ****. Forgot we are talking about the federal government. to simple!

[yuppiejr]

Hell, a quick two word search on youtube finds a ton of videos talking about Sig brace as an sbr.

...if videos of dumb or illegal **** people post on Youtube is representative of the gun industry at large and a basis for further regulation we're in serious trouble. Home Depot should probably start only selling to licensed contractors since I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of Americans who've made home improvements in violation of local building codes after watching DiY Youtube videos... same with Auto Zone selling car parts only to certified mechanics to avoid illegal modifications to cars or motorcycles, etc...

Like I said in my first post, my bigger concern is not specific to the Sig Brace, rather the idea that the ATF is going to stretch the NFA's definitions & classifications beyond the intent and construction of a firearm (which is measurable to specific published standards documented in the NFA and it's later revisions) to include a "use" modifier that is NOT part of the laws the agency in question is charged with enforcing.

[Holland&Holland]

Hell, a quick two word search on youtube finds a ton of videos talking about Sig brace as an sbr.

...if videos of dumb or illegal **** people post on Youtube is representative of the gun industry at large and a basis for further regulation we're in serious trouble. Home Depot should probably start only selling to licensed contractors since I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of Americans who've made home improvements in violation of local building codes after watching DiY Youtube videos... same with Auto Zone selling car parts only to certified mechanics to avoid illegal modifications to cars or motorcycles, etc...

Like I said in my first post, my bigger concern is not specific to the Sig Brace, rather the idea that the ATF is going to stretch the NFA's definitions & classifications beyond the intent and construction of a firearm (which is measurable to specific published standards documented in the NFA and it's later revisions) to include a "use" modifier that is NOT part of the laws the agency in question is charged with enforcing.

Settle down, I think you are misinterpreting some comments to mean that some agree with the ruling. Speaking for myself, that could not be further from the truth. My point is that sometimes folks shoot themselves in the foot (figuratively speaking of course). Anyone who did not see this coming a mile away has their head in the sand. That does not mean I agree with it, in fact I would be for a full repeal of NFA. That said, we know the issues with the ATF, we know the current administrations stand on guns. Sig knew what they were producing. They did it in a very smart way, we should have got the hint and kept it at that and what folks did with it could have remained what they did.

Now an interesting side note on all this leaves me thinking, what if I shoot my rifle for fun one handed with my are extended? Have I just modified it into an illegal handgun?

[yuppiejr]

Now an interesting side note on all this leaves me thinking, what if I shoot my rifle for fun one handed with my are extended? Have I just modified it into an illegal handgun?

Exactly my point - just trust the ATF, they will decide if you are in violation and let you know after the fact since if it's not spelled out in the law... If nothing else this whole situation has likely made people a lot more aware of how screwed up the NFA is and will motivate some of them to start asking their representatives why it's still on the books in the first place if the ATF can't make up it's mind on how to enforce it from month to month.

[Dave Timm]

A lot of us in the industry saw this coming, especially when people ask dumb questions. If you ask the ATF, "hey I want to make an SBR, oops I mean pistol, with the Sig Brace as a stock and shoot it like a rifle is that ok?" they will reply no as they did. If your intent is to build a rifle, shoot it like a rifle, even with the brace as your "stock" your intent is to still build a rifle. When you have people bragging how they are building pistols but really it's their "SBR" the ATF is going to get wise. When the brace was first introduced seeking approval there was some concern about this very topic. Hence why the designer submitted a detailed outline of how the device was intended to be used.

I am not siding with the ATF and whole heartedly think the NFA is unconstitutional but I can't say this surprises me. It sucks, I think everyone should be able to own an SBR as they do anything else but until that changes it's what we have.

Maybe the industry should not have advertised them as a tax free SBR?

When I refer to the industry I was talking about manufacturers etc. I am not aware of any mfg or distributor promoting it as a tax free SBR. Sadly I know there were gunshops and then individuals promoting this as such which is why I knew it was going to go down this way. I think some of those shops did help the demise of the brace. At the end of the day with our current NFA laws there is no such thing as a free lunch, I mean tax free SBR.

[Rip Van Winkle]

This ruling is nothing new nor is it unprecedented. The ATF has been doing BS like this for decades. We can't even import American made M1 rifles anymore because they redefined the "sorting use" clause in the GCA 1968.

Also anyone thinking this will cause some kind of groundswell of opposition are fooling themselves. Outside of a handful of posters on gun boards like this one, no one, not even gun owners, will even notice.

[samginko]

I read an article here

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/1 ... t-changed/

Which makes a case for the intent of the person assembling the firearm. But, I for one will not shoulder the brace within eye shot of any law. Since, Sig USA was kind enough to provide us with a letter claifying ATF stance, maybe they should step up and claify what this all means.

[Bearcatrp]

I will be keeping mine while I research the procedures to make it a SBR. Anyone who had done this care to tell me the most efficient and least costly way of doing this? The brace is ok for what its made for but would like a folding stock on it for better comfort.

[CZscout]

All this makes me glad I no longer possess / own a SB15. Seem like an easy way for an uncle sam "gotcha" now.

I wonder how this action will play in the market place - will vendors stop selling it because of this added confusion?

Good Luck!

[Holland&Holland]

I will be keeping mine while I research the procedures to make it a SBR. Anyone who had done this care to tell me the most efficient and least costly way of doing this? The brace is ok for what its made for but would like a folding stock on it for better comfort.

Search SBR on this forum and you will quickly find a couple of threads on this topic with some very detailed and good write-ups that lead you through it. They also include links to the ATF SBR guide and links to engraver's that you will need. It is actually a pretty easy process.

[Bearcatrp]

Thanks. For those who have already built a pistol using the sig brace, and want to change to a SBR, (change the stock to a folding one), is the procedure the same?

[PHATSPEED7x]

It will be interesting to see how many people are actually charged with a crime under this new discussion...

[Scratch]

Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11, “pistol” is defined as:
… a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

So I guess we are "redesigning" our handguns when we shoot them with two hands.... Guess we're all going to the big house huh...