Tactical/precision scope.

View · by **LumberZach** on Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:53 pm

Hi all,

After the prairie dog scope thread I've been thinking about my tactical/precision rifle build and how it needs a real scope up for the task. It's currently a savage 10 in 308 and its got a Nikon hunting scope so I can just shoot groups and play with it some. I really need to step it up though, as the current scope doesn't really even have turret adjustments. What are some good recommendations? Night force is a bit much for my budget right now, but I've been looking at the vortex viper pst 6-24x.

The goal of the whole setup is really to learn distance shooting, and take some long range courses. Hopefully it will be a good do-all and I can use it for f-class making push for a little more magnification. It seems like there are a lot of good options out there in a sub-nightforce price range, the trouble is sorting through it all. Some criticisms I've heard on the viper is that it isn't as clear as other scopes on higher magnifications, and there isn't as much adjustment which may make it hard to push the 308 further when I gain experience and try to push things a bit.

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View · by **xd ED** on Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:23 pm

On any 308 rifle/ scope used to shoot long distance, you'll get better optical performance with a ramped mounting rail. You will start out with +20MOA(or whatever the ramp is built for), and the scope will still be vertically centered (with 20MOA on a 1/4 min adjustments, that's the equivelant of 80 clicks).
In lieu of a ramped rail, you could go with Burris Z rings w/ inserts to achieve similar results.
For high optical quality/ high value target scopes, the Sightron SIII scopes are quite popular. Some compare them on par with Nightforce, optically. typically less than 1/2 the price of a Nightforce.
I suspect any 'popular priced' scope is going to exhibit some optical degredation at the max. magnification. Choose accordingly when you buy the scope, and plan on using it at less than 100% magnification.

View · by **UnaStamus** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:28 am

6-24x is more than enough to run a .308 at any range. The .308 runs out a legs very quickly past 800yds, and the general rule of thumb is that 1-1.5x per 100yds is sufficient. 6-24x will not be a problem.

Vortex Viper PST
Burris XTR-II 4-20x or 5-25x
SigSauer TANGO4 4-16x or 6-24x
SWFA 5-20x SSHD
Vortex Razor HD (Gen1) 5-20x50 (you can still find these around on clearance)

View · by **Rip Van Winkle** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:28 am

UnaStamus wrote:The .308 runs out a legs very quickly past 800yds....

It does?

Dang, and here I was planning on shooting more Palma and Fullbore this season.

Good thing I found out. :lol:

View · by **hammAR** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:37 am

Trying to figure out if that is opinion - fact - sarcasm..................... :cogitating:

View · by **Erud** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:24 am

It all depends on how you shoot it. :gun:

View · by **mrp** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:42 am

Erud wrote:It all depends on how you shoot it.

Exactly. If I'm running at a full sprint when I shoot, I can add a good 25 fps to the bullet's muzzle velocity when calculating when the legs are going to drop off. I figure I'm good at least out to 800 yards, 2-1/4".

View · by **UnaStamus** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:06 pm

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
UnaStamus wrote:The .308 runs out a legs very quickly past 800yds....

It does?

Dang, and here I was planning on shooting more Palma and Fullbore this season.

Good thing I found out.

"Running out of legs" means slowing down and dropping.
The argument isn't that it CAN'T go longer, but that the capabilities of it drastically reduce. The .308 starts becoming highly susceptible to both environmentals and drag/trajectory at longer range at a rate that makes it lose efficacy. This is why the Navy and USMC started using the Mk13 .300WM, and the new M40 rifles are .300WM, and the US Army is swapping the M24s over to the XM2010 platform to run .300WM for those that are not being issued the MSR system (also .300WM). All .308 bolt action rifles are being systematically phased out of the military because they have SASR systems that can handle that role out to 800m. Beyond that they've found that going to the .300Win Mag is a far more efficient decision and it results in a much higher rate of first round hits.

The 6.5mm and 6mm cartridges are annihilating the .308s in the precision rifle competition world. All the sniper and tactical precision rifle competitions are being won by the 6/6.5 bullets, or else the .300WM and .338LM (or wildcat permutations). It's to the point now where some competitions are running an LE/MIL category that is .308 only so that people running .308s have a chance to actually win something.

View · by **unfitmother** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:52 pm

This thread is pure gold

LumberZach, I've got an unmounted 5-20x50 Gen 1 Razor you're welcome to check out.

View · by **hammAR** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:46 pm

Seems that you may be correct on the Army, I wouldn't know. But the Marines are using M40A6 with the Modular Stock Program upgrade (7.62) (M40A7 will have a.338 Lapua receiver and barrel dropped into the Modular Stock Program upgrade), the M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System (7.62), and McMillan TAC-338 M? (338LM) - which is the same rifle used by Kyle and other SEALs.....

but then I could be wrong... :hide:

View · by **Erud** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:56 pm

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
UnaStamus wrote:The .308 runs out a legs very quickly past 800yds....

Dang, and here I was planning on shooting more Palma and Fullbore this season.

It'd certainly be hard for you to shoot any less of it... 8-)

View · by **Rip Van Winkle** on Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:49 pm

Erud wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:
UnaStamus wrote:The .308 runs out a legs very quickly past 800yds....

Dang, and here I was planning on shooting more Palma and Fullbore this season.

It'd certainly be hard for you to shoot any less of it...

Now you're just being mean.

Besides what's the point? Everyone knows a 308 is too ballistically inferior anyway.

View · by **Erud** on Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:44 am

True enough. Especially since Bob Gill won the CA fullbore championship a couple of weeks ago with a .223! :shock:

Now we're all going to have to upgrade our pathetic .308's to that mighty round!

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... lma-rifle/

View · by **Ghost** on Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:02 am

Erud wrote:True enough. Especially since Bob Gill won the CA fullbore championship a couple of weeks ago with a .223! Now we're all going to have to upgrade our pathetic .308's to that mighty round!

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... lma-rifle/

Impressive bullet he's shooting.

View · by **LumberZach** on Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:20 am

I have been seeing a lot on the 6.5 and 300 win mags, but after all that I found I decided the 308 would be a great starter as the ammo is more available/cheaper. Components are cheaper for reloading, so on and so forth. It may not do as well out to distance but as mentioned earlier there is plenty of guys using a 308 at more extended ranges. In addition to that, caribou gun club with a 500 yard range is about the furthest range I have access to. I've been having a tough time finding further ranges that I can use without a membership.

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