Tactical/precision scope.

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Re: Tactical/precision scope.

Postby Erud on Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:28 am

hammAR wrote:Yes I am aware - Just as you are aware that there is not one solution to all possible scenarios....

I was going off of the heading Tactical/precision scope as well as the OP post which indicates that F-class was an afterthought or nice to have......:
The goal of the whole setup is really to learn distance shooting, and take some long range courses. Hopefully it will be a good do-all and I can use it for f-class making push for a little more magnification.


I will now return to the long grass................. :mrgreen:


Nothing would prevent a guy from learning distance shooting and taking some long range courses with a SFP scope and doing very well with it. On the other hand, FFP will really suck for F-class shooting. So why direct him to something that will only work well for 2 of the 3 purposes he mentions?

If "tactical" is the only factor, then sure, go FFP. If "precision" is also in play, it may not be the right choice.

:cheers:
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Re: Tactical/precision scope.

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:31 am

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Tactical/precision scope.

Postby LumberZach on Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:12 pm

Erud wrote:
hammAR wrote:Yes I am aware - Just as you are aware that there is not one solution to all possible scenarios....

I was going off of the heading Tactical/precision scope as well as the OP post which indicates that F-class was an afterthought or nice to have......:
The goal of the whole setup is really to learn distance shooting, and take some long range courses. Hopefully it will be a good do-all and I can use it for f-class making push for a little more magnification.


I will now return to the long grass................. :mrgreen:


Nothing would prevent a guy from learning distance shooting and taking some long range courses with a SFP scope and doing very well with it. On the other hand, FFP will really suck for F-class shooting. So why direct him to something that will only work well for 2 of the 3 purposes he mentions?

If "tactical" is the only factor, then sure, go FFP. If "precision" is also in play, it may not be the right choice.

:cheers:

Could you explain why a ffp would be more trouble for f class? This isn't something I've heard much before.
Here I was hoping I could put together a rifle to do everything ha. I guess I'll need another rifle!


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Tactical/precision scope.

Postby xd ED on Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:01 pm

LumberZach wrote:
Erud wrote:
hammAR wrote:Yes I am aware - Just as you are aware that there is not one solution to all possible scenarios....

I was going off of the heading Tactical/precision scope as well as the OP post which indicates that F-class was an afterthought or nice to have......:
[quote]The goal of the whole setup is really to learn distance shooting, and take some long range courses. Hopefully it will be a good do-all and I can use it for f-class making push for a little more magnification.


I will now return to the long grass................. :mrgreen:


Nothing would prevent a guy from learning distance shooting and taking some long range courses with a SFP scope and doing very well with it. On the other hand, FFP will really suck for F-class shooting. So why direct him to something that will only work well for 2 of the 3 purposes he mentions?

If "tactical" is the only factor, then sure, go FFP. If "precision" is also in play, it may not be the right choice.

:cheers:

Could you explain why a ffp would be more trouble for f class? This isn't something I've heard much before.
Here I was hoping I could put together a rifle to do everything ha. I guess I'll need another rifle!


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As you dial up the magnification the hash marks on the reticle increase in size proportionately, and will likely obscure the bull.

As something of an aside, the reticles on the Sightron SIIIs in 32x and 50x are calibrated at 24x.
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Re: Tactical/precision scope.

Postby Erud on Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:53 pm

What Ed said. Also, there is really no use for ranging reticles at all in that game. F-Class targets have rings that are measured in MOA, and regardless of what magnification setting you are on, the target will tell you how far from from the center your last shot was. If you break a good shot holding dead center and it comes up a 9 on the right side, shooting the next shot at the same spot of the 9 ring on the left side will put you in the middle, assuming the condition hasn't changed(that's a big assumption). For a pure F-class scope, fine cross hairs with a tiny dot is about the best choice, and is what many top competitors use. Having extra lines and hash marks doesn't serve any purpose other than to get in the way. Maximum magnification is all the rage too, with many of the top shooters using the 8-80x March since it was released. An FFP scope in that power range would be useless through most of it's adjustment range due to the reticle either being too large as to obscure the target, or too small to be seen clearly. These guys want to be able to pick out their exact spot on the target face and hit it. They also need to be able to dial down power when necessary to work through heavy mirage, see what's going on on neighboring targets, etc.

That being said, anybody could go shoot F-Class with any scope they have and have a good time. My only point of this particular rambling post is really that an FFP scope is not the best choice for this application.

I should also add that I am NOT an F-Class shooter, but I spend around 40 days per year laying on the ground right next to them at matches.
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Tactical/precision scope.

Postby LumberZach on Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:32 pm

As always, I humbly thank you guys for your knowledge. This was very helpful. I haven't totally decided, but saving some money and going with a sfp MOA scope is looking like a pretty good deal to me.


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Re: Tactical/precision scope.

Postby UnaStamus on Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:02 pm

There is nothing wrong with SFP reticles or FFP reticles. You have to pick the reticle for the application. If you have any intention of using the reticle to make corrections or call shots, I would push you towards FFP. The one major downside of an SFP scope is that it's only accurate at one specific magnification, which is usually the highest magnification. Every other magnification is a multiple of the reticle reading and requires additional math (i.e. a 2 mil or MOA adjustment at 16x will be 8 mil or MOA at 4x). The problem is that if you are not an the exact mag level, your math could be off.

If you are only doing stated KD range target practice, it really doesn't make a lot of difference. I know LE snipers that prefer FFP and some that swear by SFP. It's all about preference.
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Postby goalie on Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:52 pm

Late to the party, but, if you actually want to learn to shoot a ways out, and turn turrets to do so, a SWFA SS fixed 6x mil/mil scope will give you a HUGE amount of adjustment and, even more importantly REPEATABLE adjustments.

For 300 bucks.

Spend the rest on ammo, and when you're done, you'll know which high-end scope features you want.

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Postby goalie on Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:54 pm

And, before anyone says 6x isn't enough to shoot at long range, it is.

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Re:

Postby Ghost on Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:50 am

goalie wrote:And, before anyone says 6x isn't enough to shoot at long range, it is.

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Agreed
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Re:

Postby Erud on Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:17 am

goalie wrote:And, before anyone says 6x isn't enough to shoot at long range, it is.

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Yeah, and it'll be just awesome for holding off on those F-class targets too... :roll:
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Tactical/precision scope.

Postby LumberZach on Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:09 am

I was looking at the 10x swfa for a while, but I'm thinking that the viper lineup will suit me better. I am re-thinking the 24x for the 16x if I go with the sfp however. I'm expecting I will want to back off the 24x more often and if I just leave the 16x on full magnification I should be fairly good to go for most things.


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Re: Tactical/precision scope.

Postby Geezer43 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:42 am

How about the Lucid L5 6-24X50mm ($450), or the Lucid 4-16X44mm "Cross Over Optic" ($420)??
Both have a Limited Lifetime Warranty.
The etched L5 reticle and SFP seem like they would suit your needs rather well.
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Tactical/precision scope.

Postby LumberZach on Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:38 pm

I'm digging up this thread instead of starting another because all of you have been really helpful so thank you for all your help. Scopes have been de-prioritized under the current political climate... But once I have some money stashed and a little more ammo I have decided on getting a vortex viper pst 6-24x with a mil reticle and 1st focal plane for my bolt action gun. That is a bit of money so it'll take a while.

That being said, does anyone have primary arms scopes locally? I have been looking at the 4-14x44 with the rgrid reticle for a different rifle that won't be as seriously set on precision. I imagine this won't be as nice, but it looks like it has a ton of features for a good price. I've been hearing pretty decent things about it so far online but I'd like to check one out if possible. I'm hoping some local shop has one. Let me know if anyone has seen one around.


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Re: Tactical/precision scope.

Postby UnaStamus on Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:02 pm

If you haven't yet, go check out the YouTube channel of TiborasaurusRex. He does a great break-down of scope quality and what you get for your money, and has charts to show options and capabilities. He does this with scopes across the board.
http://m.youtube.com/user/TiborasaurusRex

Something that he points out is that with lower cost scopes, you get a lot better quality with fixed-power optics than you do variables. This refers to both optical quality and mechanical reliability. I'm a strong +1 for a SWFA SS fixed magnification scope. I would go with 10x or 12x personally, but everyone has their preferences.

Just something to think about to make your life more confusing and difficult. :D
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