Tactical/precision scope.

[Erud]

True enough. Especially since Bob Gill won the CA fullbore championship a couple of weeks ago with a .223! Now we're all going to have to upgrade our pathetic .308's to that mighty round!

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... lma-rifle/

Impressive bullet he's shooting.

Yeah, it's actually a pretty big step up ballistically from any .30 cal bullet that fits into the Fullbore weight limit. Still an accomplishment though, as the .223 at those distances is just so sensitive to the tiniest variations in case capacity, charge weight, etc. You'd really have to be on top of your loading process in addition to being an excellent shooter to win in fullbore with a .223.

[Erud]

I have been seeing a lot on the 6.5 and 300 win mags, but after all that I found I decided the 308 would be a great starter as the ammo is more available/cheaper. Components are cheaper for reloading, so on and so forth. It may not do as well out to distance but as mentioned earlier there is plenty of guys using a 308 at more extended ranges. In addition to that, caribou gun club with a 500 yard range is about the furthest range I have access to. I've been having a tough time finding further ranges that I can use without a membership.


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All joking aside, UnaStamus is correct that the .308 is not the best choice for long range. It ain't the worst though, either. At the distances you are talking about, it won't be giving up much of anything to the ballistically-superior rounds. If you are a newer shooter, it'd generally fall into your margin of error anyways. .308 is a great general purpose round, and is extremely easy to get to shoot well in almost anything. I've managed to win quite a few matches with it against all sorts of 6's and 6.5's, even at 1000 yards.

[shooter115]

As the devil's advocate. If there weren't certain shooting disciplines and/or divisions mandating .308 as the cartridge, would it still be relevant at all in the shooting sports?

Outside of 3 gun, in the heavy classes where ammo cost is a significant concern due to volume of fire, pretty sure most people would be saying "three oh what?"

[Erud]

As the devil's advocate. If there weren't certain shooting disciplines and/or divisions mandating .308 as the cartridge, would it still be relevant at all in the shooting sports?

Outside of 3 gun, in the heavy classes where ammo cost is a significant concern due to volume of fire, pretty sure most people would be saying "three oh what?"

That's not really a Devil's advocate position, it's just common sense. If you just want the best ballistic performer at long range, I don't think anyone would argue that the .308 is it. But, it is capable, is inherently accurate, has tons and tons of proven load recipes and plenty of good factory ammo choices, and gets better barrel life than any of the superior cartridges. Also, the average shooter isn't going to be able to realize the advantages of a better cartridge anyways. My primary source of shooting fun is in a class that is limited to .308 and .223 only, so I end up shooting a lot of .308, even when it's not required. I also have a fancy 6mm wildcat that beats the pants off of the .308, but somehow all of my best scores have still been shot with the .308. For me personally, I think I get lazy when shooting the 6 and don't pay as close attention to the wind as I should.

I dunno, to me the whole thing is sort of like an argument of why anyone would ever buy a 9mm handgun when the .50 AE has so much more stopping power? Also, most shooters are not involved in the shooting sports at all.

I gotta get to work...

[Rip Van Winkle]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/03/bob-gill-wins-ca-fullbore-championship-with-223-palma-rifle/
Holy crap! 25gr of Varget under a 90gr VLD. And he says the brass tends to stretch.

Back when I was playing at 1000 yards with the Service rifle I was shooting a molyied 80gr VLD soft seated into the case over 24.8gr of Varget. That load was hot, but it made it to the target (and was accurate).

Hats off to Bob Gill.

[shooter115]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/03/bob-gill-wins-ca-fullbore-championship-with-223-palma-rifle/
Holy crap! 25gr of Varget under a 90gr VLD. And he says the brass tends to stretch.

Good luck finding that one as a published load......lol

[Erud]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that trying that combo in an AR would be a bad idea.

[shooter115]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that trying that combo in an AR would be a bad idea.

I don't know if it would be physically possible to push the bullet far enough into the case to fit in the mag. Someone here should try though.......please take video.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Judging by the photo, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to get those suckers into a non-custom chamber, let alone a magazine.

[UnaStamus]

Used Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP MRAD for $775 shipped
http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5553-optics-px/14621419-fs-used-vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-ffp-rifle-scope-mrad

[LumberZach]

Used Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP MRAD for $775 shipped
http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5553-optics-px/14621419-fs-used-vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-ffp-rifle-scope-mrad

Looks like a great deal! Maybe I will start looking used more. Is everyone using MRAD? I was thinking more along the lines of an MOA/MOA scope.


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[hammAR]

It's a Ford vs Chevy argument.............

[xd ED]

Using MOA, it's about 1inch per 100 yards; two dimensions I can readily relate to without any further math.
I'm sure one can learn to be equally comfortable with the the MRAD system. I'm just not that guy right now.

[Erud]

Neither is better than the other. It's just 2 systems of measuring the same thing, and both are just always of dividing up a circle. MOA coincides pretty nicely with inches, while Miliradians fit right in with centimeters. Mil/mil scopes are definitely more popular in tactical type shooting circles. Personally, I'm with XDEd. At least 90% of the shooting I do is with rifles with iron sights that adjust in 1/4 MOA on targets that I know the sizes of in MOA, and everybody that I shoot with is the same. We all talk to each other in MOA, and the wind talks to me in MOA. So on the rare occasion that I shoot with a scope, using something other than MOA would be counterproductive for me. If you're just a regular guy that'll be hunting deer or casually shooting at the range, MOA might be more natural for you. If you will never use your scope to estimate ranges with, MOA might be easier on you. If you aren't really in either camp yet, and maybe you shoot with friends who all use one or the other, you might want to go with what they are doing so everyone is on the same page. If you think you might get into tactical or PRS type matches in the future, you'd definitely want to look hard at Mil/Mil scopes. Due to their current popularity, resale value is also better on Mil/Mil scopes than on MOA/MOA, if that is a consideration for you.

[LumberZach]

Thanks for the info! Really I have looked into to where I think MOA will be easier on me not knowing metric all that well. It seems like all of the second hand scopes I've been looking at are MRAD though. I'm probably so close to the surface that it really won't matter which one I get until I shoot more and settle into a discipline a little more to know what I'll need. Right now I really just want to learn and get into it all.


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