Mn state statues on rifle length

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Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby brtnrider152 on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:25 pm

Does anyone have the Minnesota statute location for the rifle min overall length? I want to read the law. I recently went into a local gun shop that is selling 14.5" uppers and they claim there legal. Thanks for any help!
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Nougat on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:34 pm

brtnrider152 wrote:Does anyone have the Minnesota statute location for the rifle min overall length? I want to read the law. I recently went into a local gun shop that is selling 14.5" uppers and they claim there legal. Thanks for any help!


I will say I'm not a studied man on the subject firstly. then I will go on to say I recently saw a thread here regarding when a person had to permanently 'pin' their flah hider on, and it was well I'm not sure when it was. maybe something about having a complete lower.

so my guess is they are legal for them to sell by themselves because they show no intention of anything but if you have some odd combination of stuff on your 'person' or in your home with them you will find yourself up that one creek?

maybe not ?! but Since I'm interested in learning about those scary assault rifles myself, I will go out on my limb with this guess and see if I got it wrong.

I don't even know what a upper is?? is the barrel in that part?
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby farmerj on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:44 pm

brtnrider152 wrote:Does anyone have the Minnesota statute location for the rifle min overall length? I want to read the law. I recently went into a local gun shop that is selling 14.5" uppers and they claim there legal. Thanks for any help!



The key is its not a state, but federal law for 16" barrel. While the 14.5" barrel itself is not legal, a permanently attached muzzle device making it over 16" does make it legal.
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Evad on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:43 pm

It's also perfectly legal on a pistol lower, no?
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby farmerj on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:45 pm

Evad wrote:It's also perfectly legal on a pistol lower, no?

If it were ONLY 14.5" on a pistol lower, yes. But at 16", it becomes a rifle barrel.


Then you could get yourself into a pickle having both pistol and rifle listed at lower assemblies which are the actual firearm by virtue of serial number but having upper receivers that are interchangeable between the two.

An issue with BATFE that could get uglier than anything I care to deal with.


Something that could be an issue with the Thompson contender's also.
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Nougat on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:46 pm

Evad wrote:It's also perfectly legal on a pistol lower, no?


a person could also build a short barreled rifle with it? if they paid for the tax stamp after submitting forms and being approved, no? the difference being he could have a stock on the ' pistol ' then?

is it right to suggest going to that ar15 forums place to learn more? https://www.ar15.com/forums/b/3_AR_15.html

is this thing even a part of an ar 15? does that just mean assault rifle , I thought that name was a new thing ?

edit: I see answers down there now. rather than say thanks there and clutter more, Thanks!
Last edited by Nougat on Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Stugotz on Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:34 pm

You can bet that the BATFE wouldn't really have much of a sense of humor when it comes to issues of this nature... :lol:

farmerj wrote:An issue with BATFE that could get uglier than anything I care to deal with.
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Hmac on Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:01 pm

It's perfectly legal to sell, buy, or possess a barrel shorter than 16 inches. It's not legal to manufacture or possess a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16 inches. Theoretically, possessing all the parts necessary necessary to construct a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16 inches is illegal too.
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby farmerj on Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:09 pm

File a. Atf form 4 and pay the $200 fee and you can legally own a short barrel rifle.

Therein lies the crux of the issue...

With a threaded muzzle device, it's a short rifle or long pistol barrel. With a fixed, pinned or welded muzzle device it's a rifle barrel.

The ATF considers a receiver either a pistol or a rifle, but not both. You can't go switching back and forth.
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Hmac on Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:13 pm

Nougat wrote:
Evad wrote:It's also perfectly legal on a pistol lower, no?


a person could also build a short barreled rifle with it? if they paid for the tax stamp after submitting forms and being approved, no? the difference being he could have a stock on the ' pistol ' then?

is it right to suggest going to that ar15 forums place to learn more? https://www.ar15.com/forums/b/3_AR_15.html

is this thing even a part of an ar 15? does that just mean assault rifle , I thought that name was a new thing ?


Sure, you could build a short barrel rifle.

AR15 is a generic term for semi-automatic version of the M16 and it's subsequent variants, including the M4. It's an old term that Armalite used for what was to become the M16. When Colt bought the design, they trademarked AR15 for the semi-automatic version. They are sometime mistakenly referred to as "assault rifles", but since that term refers to select-fire rifles, the label is inaccurate.

IMHO, M4carbine.net is a better choice for accurate information in "modern sporting rifles".
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Evad on Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:43 pm

farmerj wrote:
Evad wrote:It's also perfectly legal on a pistol lower, no?

If it were ONLY 14.5" on a pistol lower, yes. But at 16", it becomes a rifle barrel.



Interesting. It doesn't apply to me, but I was not aware the barrel had that affect. I thought it had more to do with having a stock or not. Granted, since it didn't apply, I never really read on it. If I did a pistol it would be 10.5.
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby farmerj on Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:48 pm

Evad wrote:
farmerj wrote:
Evad wrote:It's also perfectly legal on a pistol lower, no?

If it were ONLY 14.5" on a pistol lower, yes. But at 16", it becomes a rifle barrel.



Interesting. It doesn't apply to me, but I was not aware the barrel had that affect. I thought it had more to do with having a stock or not. Granted, since it didn't apply, I never really read on it. If I did a pistol it would be 10.5.


When I sold guns for sportsman's warehouse, we ran into this issue more with the Thompson contender set up. People wanting to buy the pistol barrels, rifle barrels and stock kits all for the same receiver.


Talk about a mess. Then add in the muzzleloader barrel to it which isn't normally considered a firearm because it's black powder. OMG.
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Re: Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Aso on Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:23 pm

farmerj wrote:
Evad wrote:It's also perfectly legal on a pistol lower, no?

If it were ONLY 14.5" on a pistol lower, yes. But at 16", it becomes a rifle barrel.


Then you could get yourself into a pickle having both pistol and rifle listed at lower assemblies which are the actual firearm by virtue of serial number but having upper receivers that are interchangeable between the two.

An issue with BATFE that could get uglier than anything I care to deal with.


Something that could be an issue with the Thompson contender's also.

How does it work if you own multiple AR15s? What I'm wondering is if I have a rifle built AR and a pistol built AR do I have to worry about getting in trouble for having a pistol upper and a rifle upper. I have four receivers right now (one is used for a rifle)and was thinking of building a pistol with one of the three unused lowers. As long as I keep the same upper and lower together I should be fine?

I'm fairly new to this stuff and rather err on the side of caution when it comes to laws but building them is about as fun as shooting to me.

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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby Hmac on Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:54 pm

All kinds of constructive intent boogeymen have arisen from this index case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Center_Arms
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Re: Mn state statues on rifle length

Postby farmerj on Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:14 pm

You are dealing with an alphabet agency known to make bad decisions and peoples life a living hell.


While it SHOULDN'T be an issue as hmac shows with case law and the supreme court decision, (yes, I was aware of it) you are still dealing with the BATFE.

SBR, form 4 and all the associated laws still apply. The gray area around it is what you now are creating. So it's best to be aware those waters exist.


When you filled out the 4473 on your lowers, WHAT did you list them as, pistol? Or longgun? There's your answer as to what you can build and the legal requirements around it. If a long gun, it had best have a stock and a 16" barrel or else a form 4 for a barrel under 16".
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