So, censorship is here then?

[justaguy]

If you're out to get your undies in a bunch, it'll surely happen. Let's see how this plays out. Rucker and all the mods mentioned are stand up guys.

See Rule #4.

4.) Thread drift will be discouraged, if a thread gets too far off the original topic we will split that thread into a new topic and the old one will remain, if the people on the board want to continue that discussion please do so but in an appropriately titled thread.

I suggest the title of the new thread to be " Let's see how this plays out."

[jac714]

There are people with poles up thier arses who have little big man syndrome and take things to seriously. They dont believe in the first amendment and the things that rucker did not worry about they will

And let the Trolls arrive from the other places cause they get exempted as they have special privilages

And the funny thing is cant find anywhere that rucker came up wit these rules


It is our intention to actively, strictly and evenly enforce those rules using the consequences described.
In an attempt to eliminate any misunderstandings we are going to enforce the following:
1.) Profanity (or attempts to bypass the profanity filter) will be edited out and a warning issued.
2.) Racism or racist comments or remarks will not be tolerated and will also be edited by the mods.
3.) Enough with the foreign languages, any post in languages other than (American) English will also be deleted. This is an adult forum, no babytalk or “secret codes”, if we see this we will edit it out.
4.) Thread drift will be discouraged, if a thread gets too far off the original topic we will split that thread into a new topic and the old one will remain, if the people on the board want to continue that discussion please do so but in an appropriately titled thread.
5.) The Valley Fair incident threads have drifted too far so they have been locked.


So where is Ruckers endorsement on these new rules?? Or are they them same as why rucker got rid of the mods last time as they decided to make thier own rules

Rucker is fully aware of the clarification of the existing rules and has given his approval. I was not aware that Rucker told you why he previously decided not to have moderators. It seems to me that asking someone to return as a moderator is a show of Ruckers confidence that we will act as he wishes.

I will ask you once again to provide evidence where any of the current mods have treated anyone differently. You seem to think you are being singled out for unfair treatment, you are not. You also cannot show any evidence you or anyone else has recieved differential treatment.

I would imagine (know) that Rucker has been on the forum since those clarifications have been posted, if he did not endorse them would they still be there?

[ttousi]

To all..........

We are open to suggestions and are trying to help rucker here. One alternative is to let him become disgusted with some of the things that go on here from all quarters and eventually give up baby sitting and shut it down.

How do you moderate with out a set of rules? Would you prefer that the free for all continue ....personal attacks, profane and/or obscene posts and pics, continuation of the "feud". What type of image do you want to project to the public or the person, young or old, looking over your shoulder.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean we curtail our thoughts, ideas, and convictions but it also doesn't mean it's acceptable to be crude or derogatory in expressing ones self.

We all have choices .........stay and try it or leave. It would be much easier for me to just disassociate myself from the group but I have chosen to try and help. Help or hinder.. up to you.

Your choice?

.02

[ttousi]

David Slam

Jac714, your example of the "rounds from a pound" vs. "shots from a bottle" is exactly what I'm talking about. What's wrong with that? You don't honestly think someone will start a thread about how many shots can be gotten from a bottle, do you? It's only funny within the context of the original thread, and it's illustrative of how a real conversation goes.

Geez you guys are too quick............

David I understand your point...........how do we then deal with the complaint that "reloading is a serious subject and there should be no nonsense in the thread...people could get hurt"
And yes that complaint has happened.
When the alcohol part of the thread has more posts than the powder maybe we should just change the title?

Again ...........help us out here guys.

[Widge]

I totally agree that personal attacks should be outlawed, certain topics should not be permitted, such as the feud (meh, get over it people) but to extend that to prevent people from dropping in an occasional 'holy sh...' or 'what the....' for emphasis or effect is just petty. Certainly gratuitously obscene posts should be removed, and threads that degenerate into slanging matches locked, but to say that only 'American English' is permitted? Come on! As for the reloading thing, or any other thread drift, a post from a Mod. stating that this thread 'needs to return on track or it will be locked' should have sufficed.

FWIW I am an admin and a Moderator on two other gun boards and neither feel the need to tell people how (or what) to post.

[justaguy]

Would you prefer that the free for all continue ....personal attacks, profane and/or obscene posts and pics, continuation of the "feud". What type of image do you want to project to the public or the person, young or old, looking over your shoulder.

Yes I like free flowing. You asked.

This is the intranet and people will find anything they will look for. This site is a lot less rude and crude then other gun sites I know of. If people want to make gunners look bad this wouldn't be the site to choose to do that.


Jac since you are always telling Ace to prove things. Prove this statement.

I see very little effort on anyone elses part to assist Rucker with the daily operation of the forum, perhaps rather than complain you might want to try stepping up to help.

I know a lot of people here that have, will, and would help if asked. Either financial or with anything asked. That is an insult to a lot of people here.

[rucker]

I totally agree that personal attacks should be outlawed, certain topics should not be permitted, such as the feud (meh, get over it people) but to extend that to prevent people from dropping in an occasional 'holy sh...' or 'what the....' for emphasis or effect is just petty. Certainly gratuitously obscene posts should be removed, and threads that degenerate into slanging matches locked, but to say that only 'American English' is permitted? Come on! As for the reloading thing, or any other thread drift, a post from a Mod. stating that this thread 'needs to return on track or it will be locked' should have sufficed.

FWIW I am an admin and a Moderator on two other gun boards and neither feel the need to tell people how (or what) to post.

Holy **** what the **** are you talking about? <-- see how that worked?

*****s are not profanity. **** is ok $hit is not.

[justaguy]

"reloading is a serious subject and there should be no nonsense in the thread...people could get hurt"

If you hurt yourself loading 20gr. of Patron in a .45acp shell then maybe you shouldn't be reloading.

[David]

Tom,

I've seen complaints like that posted on the board, so I'm sure there have been some sent to Mike as well. I'm not sure that someone complaining about unrelated posts in a thread is more valid than others complaining about a lack of humor, either. Why does that complaint trump other complaints?

You deal with it by deciding what sort of message board you want to provide, and then act accordingly; not trying to please everyone. Notice how I'm not saying the message board should be one way or the other. I'm simply saying that every rule you promulgate will offend some and please others. Successful boards have administrators who create a community based on what they want, and people looking for the same thing will come. The rest will find another board, and that's cool.

And really, safety? I didn't see the thread, but someone actually thought that having a reference to tequila in a reloading thread would lead to an unsafe situation? I give people more credit than that. And I don't understand the mentality that is somehow offended by having to see (gasp!) someone else's unrelated post. Just scroll past the posts you don't care about. Why is that so difficult?

A lot of good information comes from "drift," I should add. People are more willing to throw in a comment here and there than they are starting a new thread. To my way of thinking, if the board is a community, then its discussions will mirror a real-life conversation. But, that's just what I want. Everyone has his own goals, and mine aren't more valid than another person's.

[jac714]

Jac714, your example of the "rounds from a pound" vs. "shots from a bottle" is exactly what I'm talking about. What's wrong with that? You don't honestly think someone will start a thread about how many shots can be gotten from a bottle, do you? It's only funny within the context of the original thread, and it's illustrative of how a real conversation goes.

So which group of screaming pissed off people do we satisfy? the ones who agree with you or the ones who demand the thread be split?

I think by making this sort of limitation you'll be able to focus more on the information sharing that goes on around here, which is great, but you'll also get rid of the good-natured camaraderie, which is good or bad depending on why you're here. Again, if you want it to be a technical resource, then this would be a good idea. I'm not disagreeing with you, nor am I jumping to conclusions about your intentions. I'm simply stating a fact based on years of haunting (and administering) message boards all over the Internet.

I sysoped my first on-line discussion board on an IBM PC in the early 1980's before it was the internet, so I have some experience as well. We are not trying to stamp out the "... good-natured camaraderie" what we are trying to do is attempt a small return to sanity get rid of the flaming matches, personal attacks adn enforce the simple set of rules Rucker set up when he started this forum. This is what Rucker asked us to do.

I doubt you have very much experience with message boards if you think that a thread's title is an accurate description of every post inside it. That's not very realistic, and it's not very fun, either. You'll gain some members with rigid enforcement of these rules, and you'll lose others. In the end, it comes down to what sort of online experience Mike is attempting to provide.

See above

Ace, there is no First Amendment right to post on Mike's message board. You can complain about the rules if you want, but leave the Constitution out of it. Mike can enforce any rule he wants, and he's under no obligation to provide anything (for free) to any of us. If he wants to delete all posts except those about puppies (yes, even on a gun message board), he can do it, and it doesn't violate anyone's rights.

Very true, the Constitution and bill of rights were written to limit the power of government and mainly limit the power of that government not the people.

[Widge]

I totally agree that personal attacks should be outlawed, certain topics should not be permitted, such as the feud (meh, get over it people) but to extend that to prevent people from dropping in an occasional 'holy sh...' or 'what the....' for emphasis or effect is just petty. Certainly gratuitously obscene posts should be removed, and threads that degenerate into slanging matches locked, but to say that only 'American English' is permitted? Come on! As for the reloading thing, or any other thread drift, a post from a Mod. stating that this thread 'needs to return on track or it will be locked' should have sufficed.

FWIW I am an admin and a Moderator on two other gun boards and neither feel the need to tell people how (or what) to post.

Holy **** what the **** are you talking about? <-- see how that worked?

*****s are not profanity. **** is ok $hit is not.

My poor eyes and ears! Now I need to go and lie down I'm so upset. Someone used the 'S' word.

This is too stupid for words, or even ********s.

[jac714]

Would you prefer that the free for all continue ....personal attacks, profane and/or obscene posts and pics, continuation of the "feud". What type of image do you want to project to the public or the person, young or old, looking over your shoulder.

Yes I like free flowing. You asked.

This is the intranet and people will find anything they will look for. This site is a lot less rude and crude then other gun sites I know of. If people want to make gunners look bad this wouldn't be the site to choose to do that.


Jac since you are always telling Ace to prove things. Prove this statement.

I see very little effort on anyone elses part to assist Rucker with the daily operation of the forum, perhaps rather than complain you might want to try stepping up to help.

I know a lot of people here that have, will, and would help if asked. Either financial or with anything asked. That is an insult to a lot of people here.

You are correct, in retrospect that was a rash response using an all encompassing statement that by definition is wrong, my apologies to any I offended.

[David]

Jac714,

Why do you feel you have to deal with every complaint? That's my point. Just because one person (or even ten) complain, Mike is under no obligation to do anything. Someone doesn't like an alcohol reference? If Mike agrees that alcohol shouldn't be discussed, even as a joke, on the board, then that complaint can be satisfied. If he doesn't agree that it's an issue, then he says, "sorry, I don't have a problem with it."

Again, what he wants is what matters. Trying to please individuals is always a losing game.

[rucker]

My poor eyes and ears! Now I need to go and lie down I'm so upset. Someone used the 'S' word.

This is too stupid for words, or even ********s.

If you don't like it then go into your User Control Panel and turn it off. The reason that people shouldn't bypass the word filter is because it takes that choice away from people who do want it.

[ttousi]

I totally agree that personal attacks should be outlawed, certain topics should not be permitted, such as the feud (meh, get over it people) but to extend that to prevent people from dropping in an occasional 'holy sh...' or 'what the....' for emphasis or effect is just petty. Certainly gratuitously obscene posts should be removed, and threads that degenerate into slanging matches locked, but to say that only 'American English' is permitted? Come on! As for the reloading thing, or any other thread drift, a post from a Mod. stating that this thread 'needs to return on track or it will be locked' should have sufficed.

FWIW I am an admin and a Moderator on two other gun boards and neither feel the need to tell people how (or what) to post.

Gosh darn widge we are really closer than you might think on this.........

Certainly gratuitously obscene posts should be removed, and threads that degenerate into slanging matches locked,

Yup

'American English'

maybe stated wrong.........the profane/vulgar/obscene words in any language/dialect are the target not an attempt to coerce 'proper english' Additionally foreign languages were being used for personal attacks.....hence the language restriction attempt

As for the reloading thing, or any other thread drift, a post from a Mod. stating that this thread 'needs to return on track or it will be locked' should have sufficed.

good suggestion..........return or be split or locked maybe?

but to extend that to prevent people from dropping in an occasional 'holy sh...' or 'what the....' for emphasis or effect is just petty.

Let me explain the stance on the occasional holy sh**............The objective here is to delete and warn anyone that deliberately bypasses the filters .
Case in point:
Recently the "f" word was posted and the filters didn't catch it. It was brought to my attention by several folks (pre-mod days). Research showed that there are actually 2 ways to have accomplished this bypass, both are intentional.

So all in all............emphasize away......just don't "f" with the filters