So, censorship is here then?

[Widge]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3986

It is our intention to actively, strictly and evenly enforce those rules using the consequences described.
In an attempt to eliminate any misunderstandings we are going to enforce the following:
1.) Profanity (or attempts to bypass the profanity filter) will be edited out and a warning issued.
2.) Racism or racist comments or remarks will not be tolerated and will also be edited by the mods.
3.) Enough with the foreign languages, any post in languages other than (American) English will also be deleted. This is an adult forum, no babytalk or “secret codes”, if we see this we will edit it out.

If this is an 'Adult' forum what's with # 1? Ain't we all big boys and girls here? I thought there was an option to filter words built in to the software. Perish the thought that someone *might* read a naughty word or two.

2 & 3 are mutually exclusive, you can't ban 'racism' or 'racist comments' and in the next breath say you're not going to tolerate anything other than 'American English'. Sorry, not all of us were born, raised, and educated in the US. What about those who can't spell very well, are they going to be penalised (oops sorry, not the 'american english' spelling - 'penalized') as well?

I have no issue if the Mods wish to 'edit' posts on a case by case basis, but this broad brush approach is inappropriate.

I understand this is MIke's house, and he can have whatever rules he wants, but to try to change this into some Utopian 'Rainbow brite' forum where no one ever gets mad or offended, or posts something silly/funny/slightly off colour (oops, there I go again - color), is a futile goal that serves no one well.

Let the *warnings*, the *editing* and the *removals* begin

[justaguy]

any post in languages other than (American) English will also be deleted. This is an adult forum, no babytalk or “secret codes”, if we see this we will edit it out.
Let the *warnings*, the *editing* and the *removals* begin

Brit and Ace this means you cant post. Because you dont use American English. I'm all for you two not posting but that rule sounds racist/prejudice which is against the rule #2.

Lets say there are "secret codes". If they are "secret" you wont know that they are and wont be able to edit them out. Or what if the mods just dont know what something is and they think it is secret are they going to delete it?

Most importantly if I get a post deleted do I loose that post in my post count? Like if I have 101 post, and one gets deleted am I still at 101 or do I loose one and go back to 100? Oh sorry is that off topic? Delete this if you feel the need.

Can I still call people communists and compare people to Hitler?

Is using the terms SOB, SOL, or WTF bypassing the filter of bad words?

[Widge]

Justa, the stars must be in alignment - I think we are agreeing on something here

Moderator:

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary -
Moderator

Mod"er*a`tor\, n. [L.: cf. F. mod['e]rateur.]

1. One who, or that which, moderates, restrains, or pacifies. --Sir W. Raleigh.

Angling was . . . a moderator of passions. --Walton.

2. The officer who presides over an assembly to preserve order, propose questions, regulate the proceedings, and declare the votes.

3. In the University of Oxford, an examiner for moderations; at Cambridge, the superintendant of examinations for degrees; at Dublin, either the first (senior) or second (junior) in rank in an examination for the degree of Bachelor of Arts.

4. A mechamical arrangement for regulating motion in a machine, or producing equality of effect. Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

Note: Nowhere does it mention censoring, editing, or removal of items that do not conform as one of the duties of a Moderator, rather it construes them as a referee or umpire, ensuring things remain orderly and dealing with transgressors fairly and equably.

[justaguy]

Justa, the stars must be in alignment - I think we are agreeing on something here

This is off topic. Which is Rule #4.

4.) Thread drift will be discouraged, if a thread gets too far off the original topic we will split that thread into a new topic and the old one will remain, if the people on the board want to continue that discussion please do so but in an appropriately titled thread.

[Wadero]

Brit and Ace this means you cant post. Because you dont use American English. I'm all for you two not posting but that rule sounds racist/prejudice which is against the rule #2.

+1 Come back after you assimilate to our American culture... wankers.

[David]

Censorship is when you prevent someone from expressing himself. There is nothing stopping anyone here from getting his own message board, or blogging, or expressing himself in any way. Message boards are cheap. Mine's about the same size as this one (about 500 members and over 100,000 threads), and it costs me $7 per month. Blogs are free.

While limiting what people can do on here isn't "censorship," I'll agree that some of the rules being discussed are troubling. I, for one, don't believe that there is any such thing as "thread drift." When you have a party at your house, do you set aside each room for a certain topic? Anyone drifting into recipes in the football room is kicked out? Threads are conversations, and conversations go wherever people take them. If this message board is a community, then it should reflect communal discussion. If it's a reference or "help" system, then threads should be specific and stick to the topic. Doesn't matter either way, neither is right nor wrong, but I know which sort of message board I'm here for.

Regarding "usefulness," I'm not sure how anyone can judge that. If people are posting, isn't a thread by definition useful? I'm uncomfortable knowing that someone is reading what I post and deciding whether what I say is "useful" to others. I'm also uncomfortable posting and wondering if my little joke or diversion is going to be considered "drift" or not. Those two concepts haven't been defined, nor can they, really.

I think that these rules will limit the discussion around here, and definitely shift it away from a community and more toward a reference. Not saying this is bad (I'm on a couple of music equipment message boards that are insanely technical and NEVER drift into anything personal or funny), just pointing out a possible consequence that may or may not materialize. Some users might stop coming here, and others might come more, based on what sort of message board they are looking for.

Now, if a thread is locked because the discussion is getting too personal, or racist, or pornographic, or in any way inappropriate, then that should be spelled-out in the last post, rather than saying something vague like the thread isn't "useful" any more. After all, no one will learn anything unless the offending behavior is forcefully identified, and you'll just keep getting the same stuff, and have more and more locked threads.

[jac714]

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3986

It is our intention to actively, strictly and evenly enforce those rules using the consequences described.
In an attempt to eliminate any misunderstandings we are going to enforce the following:
1.) Profanity (or attempts to bypass the profanity filter) will be edited out and a warning issued.
2.) Racism or racist comments or remarks will not be tolerated and will also be edited by the mods.
3.) Enough with the foreign languages, any post in languages other than (American) English will also be deleted. This is an adult forum, no babytalk or “secret codes”, if we see this we will edit it out.

If this is an 'Adult' forum what's with # 1? Ain't we all big boys and girls here? I thought there was an option to filter words built in to the software. Perish the thought that someone *might* read a naughty word or two.

Read the rules Rucker has established, they say no profanity. If you don't like it well you cna start your own forum.

2 & 3 are mutually exclusive, you can't ban 'racism' or 'racist comments' and in the next breath say you're not going to tolerate anything other than 'American English'. Sorry, not all of us were born, raised, and educated in the US. What about those who can't spell very well, are they going to be penalised (oops sorry, not the 'american english' spelling - 'penalized') as well?

The intention here is to limit the posts in latin, german, french and to limit the complaints about language.

I have no issue if the Mods wish to 'edit' posts on a case by case basis, but this broad brush approach is inappropriate.

I understand this is MIke's house, and he can have whatever rules he wants, but to try to change this into some Utopian 'Rainbow brite' forum where no one ever gets mad or offended, or posts something silly/funny/slightly off colour (oops, there I go again - color), is a futile goal that serves no one well.

Let the *warnings*, the *editing* and the *removals* begin

Well, if you violate the rules yes those things will happen, just like in Lake Benton if I drive too fast you or one of the other people charged with enforcing the rules will give me a ticket. If you play by the rules there will be no difference in what happens.

It is not the intention to create a PC utopia, it is to try to enforce the rules at the request of the forum owner.

It is easy to sit on the sidelines and complain about things, but I see very little effort on anyone elses part to assist Rucker with the daily operation of the forum, perhaps rather than complain you might want to try stepping up to help.

[jac714]

While limiting what people can do on here isn't "censorship," I'll agree that some of the rules being discussed are troubling. I, for one, don't believe that there is any such thing as "thread drift." When you have a party at your house, do you set aside each room for a certain topic? Anyone drifting into recipes in the football room is kicked out? Threads are conversations, and conversations go wherever people take them. If this message board is a community, then it should reflect communal discussion. If it's a reference or "help" system, then threads should be specific and stick to the topic. Doesn't matter either way, neither is right nor wrong, but I know which sort of message board I'm here for.

The reason discussed for the splitting of threads is to try to keep the title revelent, you will note that threads that are split (or locked) will not be because we (the Mods) want to censor anything but rather to attempt to have it easier to find what you want to know. A recent example of what we are looking at is the thread on how many rounds you can get out of a pound of powder devolving to how many drinks you cna get out of a bottle of tequila, both are valuable pieces of information but not even really tangentally related to each other.

Regarding "usefulness," I'm not sure how anyone can judge that. If people are posting, isn't a thread by definition useful? I'm uncomfortable knowing that someone is reading what I post and deciding whether what I say is "useful" to others. I'm also uncomfortable posting and wondering if my little joke or diversion is going to be considered "drift" or not. Those two concepts haven't been defined, nor can they, really.

I did not bring up whether a post is useful or not and do not plan on making any judgement on that issue, I really don't understand the problem with splitting threads to make them more identifiable and the information easier to find.

I think that these rules will limit the discussion around here, and definitely shift it away from a community and more toward a reference. Not saying this is bad (I'm on a couple of music equipment message boards that are insanely technical and NEVER drift into anything personal or funny), just pointing out a possible consequence that may or may not materialize. Some users might stop coming here, and others might come more, based on what sort of message board they are looking for.

I think you are jumping to conclusions about what is going on, all we are trying to do is deal with a number of issues that have generated complaints from a variety of users and do so in a way that is in keeping with the rules established by Rucker in accordance with Ruckers wishes.

Now, if a thread is locked because the discussion is getting too personal, or racist, or pornographic, or in any way inappropriate, then that should be spelled-out in the last post, rather than saying something vague like the thread isn't "useful" any more. After all, no one will learn anything unless the offending behavior is forcefully identified, and you'll just keep getting the same stuff, and have more and more locked threads.

I agree with you on this and in the future if threads are locked I will make sure the reason is plainly stated.

[macphisto]

[Aceq2jot]

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3986

It is our intention to actively, strictly and evenly enforce those rules using the consequences described.
In an attempt to eliminate any misunderstandings we are going to enforce the following:
1.) Profanity (or attempts to bypass the profanity filter) will be edited out and a warning issued.
2.) Racism or racist comments or remarks will not be tolerated and will also be edited by the mods.
3.) Enough with the foreign languages, any post in languages other than (American) English will also be deleted. This is an adult forum, no babytalk or “secret codes”, if we see this we will edit it out.

If this is an 'Adult' forum what's with # 1? Ain't we all big boys and girls here? I thought there was an option to filter words built in to the software. Perish the thought that someone *might* read a naughty word or two.

2 & 3 are mutually exclusive, you can't ban 'racism' or 'racist comments' and in the next breath say you're not going to tolerate anything other than 'American English'. Sorry, not all of us were born, raised, and educated in the US. What about those who can't spell very well, are they going to be penalised (oops sorry, not the 'american english' spelling - 'penalized') as well?

I have no issue if the Mods wish to 'edit' posts on a case by case basis, but this broad brush approach is inappropriate.

I understand this is MIke's house, and he can have whatever rules he wants, but to try to change this into some Utopian 'Rainbow brite' forum where no one ever gets mad or offended, or posts something silly/funny/slightly off colour (oops, there I go again - color), is a futile goal that serves no one well.

Let the *warnings*, the *editing* and the *removals* begin

There are people with poles up thier arses who have little big man syndrome and take things to seriously. They dont believe in the first amendment and the things that rucker did not worry about they will

And let the Trolls arrive from the other places cause they get exempted as they have special privilages

And the funny thing is cant find anywhere that rucker came up wit these rules


It is our intention to actively, strictly and evenly enforce those rules using the consequences described.
In an attempt to eliminate any misunderstandings we are going to enforce the following:
1.) Profanity (or attempts to bypass the profanity filter) will be edited out and a warning issued.
2.) Racism or racist comments or remarks will not be tolerated and will also be edited by the mods.
3.) Enough with the foreign languages, any post in languages other than (American) English will also be deleted. This is an adult forum, no babytalk or “secret codes”, if we see this we will edit it out.
4.) Thread drift will be discouraged, if a thread gets too far off the original topic we will split that thread into a new topic and the old one will remain, if the people on the board want to continue that discussion please do so but in an appropriately titled thread.
5.) The Valley Fair incident threads have drifted too far so they have been locked.


So where is Ruckers endorsement on these new rules?? Or are they them same as why rucker got rid of the mods last time as they decided to make thier own rules

[Widge]

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3986

It is our intention to actively, strictly and evenly enforce those rules using the consequences described.
In an attempt to eliminate any misunderstandings we are going to enforce the following:
1.) Profanity (or attempts to bypass the profanity filter) will be edited out and a warning issued.
2.) Racism or racist comments or remarks will not be tolerated and will also be edited by the mods.
3.) Enough with the foreign languages, any post in languages other than (American) English will also be deleted. This is an adult forum, no babytalk or “secret codes”, if we see this we will edit it out.

If this is an 'Adult' forum what's with # 1? Ain't we all big boys and girls here? I thought there was an option to filter words built in to the software. Perish the thought that someone *might* read a naughty word or two.

Read the rules Rucker has established, they say no profanity. If you don't like it well you cna start your own forum.

2 & 3 are mutually exclusive, you can't ban 'racism' or 'racist comments' and in the next breath say you're not going to tolerate anything other than 'American English'. Sorry, not all of us were born, raised, and educated in the US. What about those who can't spell very well, are they going to be penalised (oops sorry, not the 'american english' spelling - 'penalized') as well?

The intention here is to limit the posts in latin, german, french and to limit the complaints about language.

I have no issue if the Mods wish to 'edit' posts on a case by case basis, but this broad brush approach is inappropriate.

I understand this is MIke's house, and he can have whatever rules he wants, but to try to change this into some Utopian 'Rainbow brite' forum where no one ever gets mad or offended, or posts something silly/funny/slightly off colour (oops, there I go again - color), is a futile goal that serves no one well.

Let the *warnings*, the *editing* and the *removals* begin

Well, if you violate the rules yes those things will happen, just like in Lake Benton if I drive too fast you or one of the other people charged with enforcing the rules will give me a ticket. If you play by the rules there will be no difference in what happens.

It is not the intention to create a PC utopia, it is to try to enforce the rules at the request of the forum owner.

It is easy to sit on the sidelines and complain about things, but I see very little effort on anyone elses part to assist Rucker with the daily operation of the forum, perhaps rather than complain you might want to try stepping up to help.

I didn't notice anyone asking for any help, much less asking me to provide it. Perhaps I wasn't in that club? Nor was I complaining, I was pointing out the inconsistencies in the 'rules' as they are posted. What that has to do with speeding tickets I don't understand, the speeding rules are enforced statewide, not just in one place or town.

I'm sure you and the other appointed guardians of the forum will have hours of fun sanitising...sorry, sanitizing, posts which don't fit the forum's position. I bet there must have been simply hundreds of complaints about posts in latin, curse words, spanish speakers, comments about other religions, so that it'll be a fulltime job making sure the kiddies don't upset anyone.

I thought this was supposed to a be a forum, you know, where different people discuss opinions and viewpoints, not a blog where everything has to conform to the interests of the author or be deleted.

Knock yourselves out.

[plblark]

If you're out to get your undies in a bunch, it'll surely happen. Let's see how this plays out. Rucker and all the mods mentioned are stand up guys.

[justaguy]

I think....

You better stop that **** right now. Or that will be rule #6 right after rule #5.

5.) The Valley Fair incident threads have drifted too far so they have been locked.

[plblark]

If you're out to get your undies in a bunch, it'll surely happen. Let's see how this plays out. Rucker and all the mods mentioned are stand up guys.

It's like there's a pendulum of rules. The other site got too far one direction, so when this site started, it swung WAY the other way. There have been some attempts to correct that but clearly Rucker can't be everywhere all the time. The pendulum is swinging again, eventually it'll even out. Hopefully with everyone still here and participating.

[David]

Jac714, your example of the "rounds from a pound" vs. "shots from a bottle" is exactly what I'm talking about. What's wrong with that? You don't honestly think someone will start a thread about how many shots can be gotten from a bottle, do you? It's only funny within the context of the original thread, and it's illustrative of how a real conversation goes.

I think by making this sort of limitation you'll be able to focus more on the information sharing that goes on around here, which is great, but you'll also get rid of the good-natured camaraderie, which is good or bad depending on why you're here. Again, if you want it to be a technical resource, then this would be a good idea. I'm not disagreeing with you, nor am I jumping to conclusions about your intentions. I'm simply stating a fact based on years of haunting (and administering) message boards all over the Internet.

I doubt you have very much experience with message boards if you think that a thread's title is an accurate description of every post inside it. That's not very realistic, and it's not very fun, either. You'll gain some members with rigid enforcement of these rules, and you'll lose others. In the end, it comes down to what sort of online experience Mike is attempting to provide.

Ace, there is no First Amendment right to post on Mike's message board. You can complain about the rules if you want, but leave the Constitution out of it. Mike can enforce any rule he wants, and he's under no obligation to provide anything (for free) to any of us. If he wants to delete all posts except those about puppies (yes, even on a gun message board), he can do it, and it doesn't violate anyone's rights.