Why not?

[nyffman]

I realize that I only have some of the information on what has been going on. But I know enough to see that there is a real problem here. At least two very knowledgeable and respected members have, at this point decided to quit contributing. We are all poorer for that. I have suggested in the past that there be an area where there is a little more free flow of ideas and attitudes with less moderation. Why would this not have been a solution to the problem that has apparantly cost us at least two of our better contributors? I personally have a great deal of respect for the two that I am aware of as leaving the forum. MNGunTalk is headed in a bad direction if it is willing to discard good people in favor of PC forms of communication. I do not direct this at rucker or anyone in particular. Just my thoughts on the subject. We need to figure out a better solution.

[1911fan]

I think the option is fine, I am just wondering why it is needed anyway.

This is a privately owned place, The owner "hired" his own people to manage it, and the vast majority of people simply said, "ok, cool."

A very small, and very annoying group of people decided it was not the owners right to hire his own staff. They threw and are continuing to throw a hissy fit. I liken them to the four year old in the shopping cart at the grocery store who 4 aisles later is still crying because mommy would not buy him coco sugar pops. GET over it, or get lost. Its simple, it really is, NO one is making this small group of whiners show up here, NO one is saying this is the only page in the internet that will accommodate them. NO one other than themselves is happy they are here.

If it were my board, I would toss the lot and change the locks. BUT it is not my board, and Rucker has chosen to be as munificent and charitable as can be imagined. To him I tip my hat. To the others, I would tip a chamber pot on their heads.

I personally like Jeff (aka JAC714) and consider him a good friend. I will miss his insight and knowledge and willingness to help.

[gunshop guy]

+1

[lumbering.buffalo]

I'll tell you why not. Because what happens here spills over into other venues. If you don't think what happens here doesn't affect attendance at B&C Steel shoots think again. If you don't think the breakfasts and lunches aren't affect by what happens here I say you're wrong.

Some people here have abused their privilege of being on this forum. Mike, I think you need it's time to grow a pair and dump these abusers.

I like Jeff and will miss his participation. Mike you did him a disservice by not bringing the calvary to his defense in this.

I'm all for freedom of speech. I'm not for abuse of speech.

[nyffman]

1911fan, I'm not sure you you understand exactly what was lost here. If this is just the fallout from what rucker wants, I have no problem with that. But, if this is in just a caving in to other members who are intolerant of others who express themselves a little differently, I will have a big problem with that.

[jac714]

Hey folks, this is not an issue with Rucker, it is an issue with a group of cavitating ******** who think they are above the rules.

This is Ruckers place he has the right to make it what he wishes, and no one really has the right to tell him how to run it.

If you want to remonstrate with anyone I would let the "usual suspects" (Ace, Brit, Justaguy etc) know what you think of the result of their self-indulgent and childish behavior. I work in a combined elementary and middle school and most of our 2nd graders evidence more maturity and self control than some posters here, as I said you get what you tolerate.

BTW if you are wondering why I am still posting here it is to attempt to head off the other mods having to put up with what I have been subjected too.

Be nice (in other words treat the person if not the idea with respect) to each other you will find it takes less effort and reaps significant returns.

[cobb]

If this is just the fallout from what rucker wants, I have no problem with that. But, if this is in just a caving in to other members who are intolerant of others who express themselves a little differently, I will have a big problem with that.

We have meet on a few occasions and I think you are a very level headed guy.
But can you please explain what you are driving at? Your first post seems to maybe suggest anarchy on the forum and I believe that I am mistaken. So please clarify.

On another note, this is rucker's forum and he can do what he sees fit to make his forum rational and acceptable to his standards. I am also against Minnesota smoking ban, although I have not smoked for going on 30 years, I think a business owner should be able to regulate a legal product in their business. If there are those that disagree, are offended, or just plain don't like, they are free to go elsewhere. So for those that don't like rucker's rules or the enforcement done by his moderators, just leave and go start your own tofu bar.

[pastorpaul]

jac - you are tall timber, indeed. my thanx and admiration.

[jac714]

Thank you for the kind words pp.

[1911fan]

Nyffman


My point and my only point is that it is Ruckers house, and we play by his rules, PERIOD.

I have no problems with rules that say decorum and civility rule. That does not mean we can not have fun, or express ideas or even poke some fun once in a while. But when every post by some people becomes a taunt trying to re-ignite some long dead to everyone but themselves battles and fights, its just tiring. Jeff takes his summers off because teaching grade schoolers how to behave is draining and daunting, yet I have a feeling he has the best behaved classrooms in his school. When he comes to an adult venue like this, where we should be able to say, "ok, I disagree, but I respect your point", and leave it at that, he is getting slammed personally by people who have as far as I can see, no redeeming social value to continue allowing them here.

I have taught school, (Apple Valley High School in the late 80's)_ and I had no problem 86'ing kids from my class on the basis that one person does not have the right to waste the time of the other 29 students who wanted to learn. As a Teacher, I had a responsibility to my students to make sure they were getting the best use of my time in class every day.

I also have dropped out of other activities over time because the return on investment in time was not worth it. When all I begin to see here is someone trying very hard to break the rules and really only attending to annoy others for their own enjoyment, I begin to loose interest.

We have a large group of VERY good people here, anyone who was at the party can see that, a good time was had by all who showed up. Our breakfasts are a wonderful event with lots of laughs, good humor and terrific camaraderie, Lets use that as our goal, not the childish whining that has seemed to permeate so much of the online postings by the few.

[DeanC]

Attendance at the downtown lunches hasn't been affected in the least. We love to get together and talk about the idiots on the forum who have no life.

I would point out that some of the geniuses who have made themselves persona non grata have made this their second grand exit from a local forum. I see a pattern.

[nyffman]

I still am dismayed at the loss of two other members, not the initial instigators. But after talking with one of the mods, I believe that I now understand the root of the problem. We commonly castigate certain minorities for a failure to assimilate. I feel that those who are at the root of this would do well to heed this advice now. I still support the existence of a preschool play area for anyone who wishes to act out and anyone wishing to be exposed to that, but there seems to be no other support for that. Above all of this, I wish to see the forum remain intact. It is too valuable a resource to waste on stupidity.

[westberg]

I still am dismayed at the loss of two other members, not the initial instigators. But after talking with one of the mods, I believe that I now understand the root of the problem. We commonly castigate certain minorities for a failure to assimilate. I feel that those who are at the root of this would do well to heed this advice now. I still support the existence of a preschool play area for anyone who wishes to act out and anyone wishing to be exposed to that, but there seems to be no other support for that. Above all of this, I wish to see the forum remain intact. It is too valuable a resource to waste on stupidity.

I too am dismayed at the loss and or banning of any member on this forum, but my question is who's fault is it? Is it Rucker's for creating rules that members can live by very easily, is it the mod's who have been asked to make sure the rules are followed to make it a forum for a larger community or is it the members them self's who for whatever reason have decided that either the rules don't apply to them and or find humor in getting around them creatively?
nyffman this is not all directed at you..........

[Widge]

I can tell you this much, had this crap taken place on any of the other forums I frequent, admin on, or moderate, behavior such as this would have received at the most one warning, followed by a permament ban.

I have no gripe with anyone on this forum, but some people need to get a **** grip on reality and behave like sentient beings, not ****-slinging monkeys.

And that's all I have to say about this subject.

[phorvick]

Yup, Mike's house, Mike's rules. 100% understood and appreicated and supported. If it were my site I would want it understood it was Paul's house and rules etc. No problem.

Now that some people have seen how the house is kept, they are leaving. Mike apparently does not care, as he has been warned/asked/advised/plead with etc. to be cautious as certain folk might be seen as trashing the decor any chance they get.

So, why should it be a surprise when some folks decide to end thier visits and vacation elsewhere. And, there are many more that are making that same decision, but won't necessarily publicly so state.

Just my sad observation.