Banned in Minnesota -- huh?

[justaguy]

So what you are saying is that you are against a free-market society......... That the market is not capable of making rational decisions regarding price and quality. Do I have that about right?

Yeah!

[EJSG19]

So what you are saying is that you are against a free-market society......... That the market is not capable of making rational decisions regarding price and quality. Do I have that about right?

Sure, you can look at it that way. The invisible hand, while a phenomenal concept, doesn't always work.

Maybe some well meaning guy trusts a POS gun with his life becuase he doesn't know any better. So by your method, if he dies, after meaning harm to no one then that murder is ok, because he should have known better? (yeah I know the gene pool jokes) Maybe that well meaning guy would have contributed something valueable to society in another way. Maybe some restrictions on a company who peddles crap wouldn't hurt?

Boeing can't sell airplanes that don't fly. Fisher Price can't sell toys that are unsafe for kids. You wouldn't try to build a car out of toothpicks would you, nor buy one? Well, maybe guns should have some similar quality standards. If a quality gun can't be made for any less than $200, well then I guess tough ****. $200 becomes that price floor. If you are lucky enough to spend less, and get a gun that works, well I suggest you buy a lottery ticket.

When its all said and done, If somebody wants to buy a gun made out of tinfoil and duct tape thats their choice. You should also prepared to deal with a gun that doesn't work very well, you get what you pay for sometimes.

[justaguy]

So what you are saying is that you are against a free-market society......... That the market is not capable of making rational decisions regarding price and quality. Do I have that about right?

Sure, you can look at it that way. The invisible hand, while a phenomenal concept, doesn't always work.

Maybe some well meaning guy trusts a POS gun with his life becuase he doesn't know any better. So by your method, if he dies, after meaning harm to no one then that murder is ok, because he should have known better? (yeah I know the gene pool jokes) Maybe that well meaning guy would have contributed something valueable to society in another way. Maybe some restrictions on a company who peddles crap wouldn't hurt?

Boeing can't sell airplanes that don't fly. Fisher Price can't sell toys that are unsafe for kids. You wouldn't try to build a car out of toothpicks would you, nor buy one? Well, maybe guns should have some similar quality standards. If a quality gun can't be made for any less than $200, well then I guess tough ****. $200 becomes that price floor. If you are lucky enough to spend less, and get a gun that works, well I suggest you buy a lottery ticket.

When its all said and done, If somebody wants to buy a gun made out of tinfoil and duct tape thats their choice. You should also prepared to deal with a gun that doesn't work very well, you get what you pay for sometimes.

Stard you want to take this one?

[Stradawhovious]

Anyone that has any illusions that a firearm made from duct tape and tinfoil will be 100% reliable is an idiot. The reason that they aren't made is........ get ready.......... here it comes......... THEY WON'T **** SELL!!!!!! What a concept huh? I think that limiting the purchasing ability for firearms to those that can afford a $500 or better model is discrimination. There. I said it. We nonchalantly let these SNS laws hang around, next we have other restricting "quality driven" laws. Next, no polymer framed firearms. No Glocks, because one blew up once. No 1911's, because the one justasimplemindedclownshoewearingglockfan owned "didn't work". Then, no semi-autos, because of perceived reliability issues, then no wheel guns because in one case in Iowa, the timing was off on a taurus, and the gun blew apart causing injuries to a barn cat........... Where does it end?

And it's all your fault EJSG19, it's all your fault.

[Holland&Holland]

So what you are saying is that you are against a free-market society......... That the market is not capable of making rational decisions regarding price and quality. Do I have that about right?

Sure, you can look at it that way. The invisible hand, while a phenomenal concept, doesn't always work.

Maybe some well meaning guy trusts a POS gun with his life becuase he doesn't know any better. So by your method, if he dies, after meaning harm to no one then that murder is ok, because he should have known better? (yeah I know the gene pool jokes) Maybe that well meaning guy would have contributed something valueable to society in another way. Maybe some restrictions on a company who peddles crap wouldn't hurt?

Boeing can't sell airplanes that don't fly. Fisher Price can't sell toys that are unsafe for kids. You wouldn't try to build a car out of toothpicks would you, nor buy one? Well, maybe guns should have some similar quality standards. If a quality gun can't be made for any less than $200, well then I guess tough ****. $200 becomes that price floor. If you are lucky enough to spend less, and get a gun that works, well I suggest you buy a lottery ticket.

When its all said and done, If somebody wants to buy a gun made out of tinfoil and duct tape thats their choice. You should also prepared to deal with a gun that doesn't work very well, you get what you pay for sometimes.

I think you need to check yourself on this one a bit. There are guns that work as they are intended that fall in this catorgory. In fact the originator of this post ran into one such gun. Now it is not meant as a home defense gun but that is not the only reason to buy a gun. you are assuming that the only reason to have a gun is to protect your life. This is about expectations. Yes boeing needs to build a plane that flies and a gun manufaturer needs to build a gun that shoots. But that is as far as it goes. If you want to buy a boat that is made out of duct tape, have fun. Wear a life vest but enjoy yourself. If you want to buy one of these guns for plinking. Enjoy. Do not use it as you re carry peice but use it for what it is.

[EJSG19]

All right folks. I think Strad needs to lay off the coffee. Getting a little extreme and eccentric for me.

Again, SNS has nothing to do with price. So your argument is a little flawed in my opinion. But thats just an opinion.

As for the whole slippery slope concept, I'm with you. I don't think the intent of the SNS law was/is currently the way you paint it.

Good steel is not that expensive. I think what they were trying to do is make it difficult to use sh!tty materials in the manufacture of firearms. On that, I can't say I mind that.

I can think of several guns I wouldn't mind owning in the $200-400 used range. Most won't have a problem meeting the following criteria. I think taken at face value, the SNS laws aren't really having the monumental affect being described here.

(1) of any material having a melting point (liquidus) of less than 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, or

(2) of any material having an ultimate tensile strength of less than 55,000 pounds per square inch, or

(3) of any powdered metal having a density of less than 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter.

[Stradawhovious]

Again, SNS has nothing to do with price. So your argument is a little flawed in my opinion. But thats just an opinion.

As for the whole slippery slope concept, I'm with you. I don't think the intent of the SNS law was/is currently the way you paint it.

What you are failing to notice here, is that almost every firearm subjected to these regulations (and I said almost) is of a lower price point. So yes, it has plenty to do with price. I'm not so sure that it's a coincidence.

[Bessy]

I hate to say it but Strad I don't agree with you at all...in fact I think quality laws should be increased... to extend and cover substandard forum posts, think about it.. that would solve your justaproblem once and for all.

[EJSG19]

Now it is not meant as a home defense gun but that is not the only reason to buy a gun. you are assuming that the only reason to have a gun is to protect your life.

Ok. Well, I can't say I disagree with your thought process. However, being for self-defense has been the atmosphere for this whole recent discussion. At least from my end. If that hasn't been clear I apologize, but I thought it was pretty plain.

If its a gun just for plinking, then who cares. But, we aren't talking about that, nor am I worried about a gun's reliability if it isn't used for self-defense. Then its just a hassle, but not a life-threatening hassle (hopefully).

So, we can go down that road on plinking guns if you want, but I don't see the point.

[Stradawhovious]

I hate to say it but Strad I don't agree with you at all...

Stand in line.

Besides, without Justapantsmadefromacircustent around, who would make me look good? I mean really.... JohnS is pretty much gone, the Oz is gone, Elmerfuddem went the way of the dodo...... I'm running out of people to lower the bar for me.

[Holland&Holland]

Glancing through a catalogue of guns for sale today, I saw that several revolvers made by an outfit called Heritage Arms (I think it was) can't be sold in Minnesota, among several other states, such as Illinois and South Carolina. This is definitely not one of those ooga-booga "assault weapons" bans, because most every other form of handgun in the catalogue is NOT banned in the People's Republic of Minnesota. The catalogue has all the common forms of revolvers and automatics, plus some that that have been tarted up to look like they're full auto.

So, what's going on here -- is it the company? The guns are just .22 revolvers.

This is the original post. It is a .22 LR revolver by Heritage arms. It is single action. I doubt anyone is thinking it would make a good home defense gun.

[Stradawhovious]

This is the original post. It is a .22 LR revolver by Heritage arms. It is single action. I doubt anyone is thinking it would make a good home defense gun.

You can blame me for taking it in the direction of self defense, sorry for the tiny bit of thread fu........... but I still stand by all of my statements.

[EJSG19]

Again, SNS has nothing to do with price. So your argument is a little flawed in my opinion. But thats just an opinion.

As for the whole slippery slope concept, I'm with you. I don't think the intent of the SNS law was/is currently the way you paint it.

What you are failing to notice here, is that almost every firearm subjected to these regulations (and I said almost) is of a lower price point. So yes, it has plenty to do with price. I'm not so sure that it's a coincidence.

Well I hate to quote myself, so I won't. But this is where the "if a quality gun can't be made for $XXX amount of money, then tough **** for everyone." I wish I could buy a good car for $150, but I can't. I don't expect the same for guns either.

[EJSG19]

Glancing through a catalogue of guns for sale today, I saw that several revolvers made by an outfit called Heritage Arms (I think it was) can't be sold in Minnesota, among several other states, such as Illinois and South Carolina. This is definitely not one of those ooga-booga "assault weapons" bans, because most every other form of handgun in the catalogue is NOT banned in the People's Republic of Minnesota. The catalogue has all the common forms of revolvers and automatics, plus some that that have been tarted up to look like they're full auto.

So, what's going on here -- is it the company? The guns are just .22 revolvers.

This is the original post. It is a .22 LR revolver by Heritage arms. It is single action. I doubt anyone is thinking it would make a good home defense gun.

Yes. that is the OP. But its been 4 pages since, and we all know that threads don't tend to follow the OP for very long around here.

Dang. If I lived under a bridge, collecting tolls from travelers and occasionally eating them, while wearing 62 DESS sweatpants, I'd have a well known line to use right about here.

[justaguy]

I think Chevys are unreliable, and a **** product. I don't think anyone should be allowed to buy them.

+1

(Stard mention that no one bought there **** product so our tax dollars had to support them.)