Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Gun related chat that doesn't fit in another forum

Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby Stradawhovious on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:05 am

plblark wrote:I think arguing with family from a position of dishonesty is a bad recipe. Also, his arguments here will carry over into the conversations about his gun ownership and could haunt him some day when she gets all grandma bear upset over her future grand kids or step grandkids or whatever ...


+1. I refuse to fuel an already irrational fear just to get what I want. I need my family to understand and respect my decision to practice my 2A rights, not tuck tail and run every time a firearm is mentioned.
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby Nemo on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:17 am

Stradawhovious wrote:
plblark wrote:I think arguing with family from a position of dishonesty is a bad recipe. Also, his arguments here will carry over into the conversations about his gun ownership and could haunt him some day when she gets all grandma bear upset over her future grand kids or step grandkids or whatever ...


+1. I refuse to fuel an already irrational fear just to get what I want. I need my family to understand and respect my decision to practice my 2A rights, not tuck tail and run every time a firearm is mentioned.


Then take my suggestion as a joke. It's a question of your relations, not the gun ownership question, someone correctly mentioned already. With unattended guns in her attic I would be worried about my mom safety more than about endless arguing about 2A with her... and having her respect my rights. And I'd lie if needed to get rid of the stuff, not because I wanted to get it myself. Find a real buyer then! Be honest.
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby EJSG19 on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:20 am

rtk wrote:Where the heck is VoR, he should have a solution to this problem. :shock:

RTK


:Swoops in to the rescue:

Sorry, been out of town since Thursday. Little surprised this place hasn't imploded with my absence...

Anyway, my advice has already been given by other posts here. Skip the trickery. Go with honesty, go with emotional reasons (which are handy because they tug at the heart strings of dearest Mother when applied properly). I have the fortune of siblings who really could not care less, and parents who have supported me shooting within reason and safety. I am the only one who cleans and maintains the firearms that stay at their places. They do use them occasionally on the farm, but if I wanted to replace one they'd let me with no problem. I clean and oil them once or twice a year when I visit. Although the only ones I have my heart set on are a Remington Fieldmaster pump .22 lr and an older Remington smoothbore .22 LR bolt action. More sentimental vaue there than anything, I grew up using those, as did my father.

Are your parents opposed to you cleaning them when you visit? Maybe if you show up physically, and take time to clean them when you visit, your Mom will realize how important they are to you, more and more. My mother is a safety freak, but isn't against guns, so I can only partially relate. You know your Mom better than anyone, and there is always a key to victory with a Mom. If she hates them like you say, this can surely work to your advantage. I'd say keep any excitement out of your voice when you talk about acquiring them. Make it a heart felt, serious matter when you convey your concern (sounds like this is exactly what you have done.) Go into the value of each gun if in good condition, and then the value of each gun if allowed to deteriorate. Your Grandfather would want them to be kept up, and to be used appropriately by his descendants, or else he would have sold them before he passed.

You look at it like I do, if they want to pass something to you when they die, that is fine, and I hope that day never comes. Maybe they'll change their mind before that. Maybe they just send them home with you some day, after you visited and cleaned them. In the end, its up to them, and them only, but you have some very valid points. If they do want you to have them when they die, it is pointless to let them rot until then. Why not allow you to receive them in good condition, no matter the day you acquire them? Clean them if you can in the meantime, persuade them if you can otherwise.

Good luck buddy.
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby Nemo on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:25 am

Stradawhovious wrote:I refuse to fuel an already irrational fear just to get what I want.

Any fear is irrational, by definition. Fear is a feeling and feeling is irrational. Women are irrational, mothers are irrational about their children. That's nature. Respect her fear, respect her feelings. You won't change her mind. Decide for yourself whether you're concerned about the stuff in the attic or not. If you are - get rid of it, if you don't - forget about it. Just like you want her to respect your 2A rights :) To answer your thread question: There is NO good argument. You don't argue with feelings.
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby macphisto on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:28 am

Nemo wrote:
Stradawhovious wrote:I refuse to fuel an already irrational fear just to get what I want.

Any fear is irrational, by definition. Fear is a feeling and feeling is irrational. Women are irrational, mothers are irrational about their children. That's nature. Respect her fear, respect her feelings. You won't change her mind. Decide for yourself whether you're concerned about the stuff in the attic or not. If you are - get rid of it, if you don't - forget about it. Just like you want her to respect your 2A rights :) To answer your thread question: There is NO good argument. You don't argue with feelings.

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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby DeanC on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:45 am

Nemo wrote:tell her the guns can explode if not taken care of

I still might try this once just to see the reaction. :lol:
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby monschman on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:45 am

seriously for a second here. As your folks are living in WI and you are not, I am assuming you are a MN resident, wouldnt you need to get the firearms ffl transferred to you, or is their a loophole for "inheritance stuff"
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby DeanC on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:47 am

monschman wrote:seriously for a second here. As your folks are living in WI and you are not, I am assuming you are a MN resident, wouldnt you need to get the firearms ffl transferred to you, or is their a loophole for "inheritance stuff"

Only if the giver is dead and they are "willed" to the receiver. Otherwise they need to go through an FFL in the receiver's state.

(Strad and I already talked about this via PM and he intends to be 100% legal)

US Federal Code wrote:§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby Stradawhovious on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:52 am

monschman wrote: wouldnt you need to get the firearms ffl transferred to you, or is their a loophole for "inheritance stuff"


As far as I know it would require an FFL.
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby Stradawhovious on Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:06 am

Nemo wrote: Women are irrational,.


:rotf: I can't possibly take you seriously after that statement. I would venture a guess that there a whole lot of folks that will disagree with this, myself being one of them. Women are no more irrational than men, and to call all fear irrational is in and of itself irrational. Thanks for playing though.
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby Pat Cannon on Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:08 am

I say have a couple friends impersonate BATF agents and confiscate them.
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby DeanC on Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:08 am

Pat Cannon wrote:I say have a couple friends impersonate BATF agents and confiscate them.

Now you're talking!
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby RobD on Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:11 am

DeanC wrote:
Pat Cannon wrote:I say have a couple friends impersonate BATF agents and confiscate them.

Now you're talking!

Detroit man charged with impersonating ATF agent

BY DAVID ASHENFELTER
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERA 37-year-old Detroit man was charged today with impersonating a federal agent after allegedly conning two women out of nearly $10,000 in an auto auction scam.

Samuel Montelle Allen was charged in a federal criminal complaint with telling both women that he was an agent for the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. He allegedly told the women that he worked on the side at a police auction in Romulus and could purchase police-confiscated vehicles before the public had a chance to bid on them.

One woman gave him $5,700, believing he would buy a 2008 Cadillac truck and a 2007 Mercury Marauder for her and her son, the complaint said. The woman’s friend allegedly paid Allen $3,700 for a 2007 Chrysler 300 and a 2008 Monte Carlo for $3,700, court documents said.

After failing to produce the cars, Allen quit taking calls from the women, the complaint said.

Authorities were alerted and Allen was arrested Monday after he allegedly accepted a $2,700 down payment from an undercover ATF agent for the purchase of a Ford Flex.
Allen was expected to appear in U.S. District Court today on a charge of impersonating a federal officer carries a maximum penalty of 3 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
ATF spokeswoman Vera Fedorak said the agency is trying to find out if Allen conned anyone else in the scam. The ATF can be reached at 800-ATF-GUNS anytime, she said.
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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby DeanC on Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:19 am

He allegedly told the women that he worked on the side at a police auction in Romulus

Well, I'll be. There really is a place called Romulus, Michigan. Are the residents Romulans?

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Re: Need a good argument for use with an anti....

Postby RobD on Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:21 am

Wow, 2 unconnected star trek references in 1 thread. What did you do Strad?
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