How effective is the stopping power of a.357 Mag.

[goalie]

An old timer I know that fought in the Korean War told me some stories about how uneffective their rifles were becuase the Koreans would rap them selves up so tight with fabric, the bullets would go through them and they would keep on coming. He said it kept all of their limbs intact, and the only way they could stop them was by using their .45 with a harball round. He said he sure put a lot more trust into his pistol.

Yeah, the Garand sucks compared to a handgun.



Seriously though, it isn't the arrow, it's the indian....

[Pat Cannon]

The conventional wisdom, supported by 75 years (1935-2010) of shooting bad guys, is that the 357 Magnum 125 grain JHP round running around 1450 FPS has a PROVEN track record of putting bad guys down and/or 6 feet under.

Yep. I switched from .45 ACP to .357 Magnum, but that was mainly because I decided I was too simpleminded and lazy to properly maintain an autoloader.

J. Edgar Hoover did tell the occasional fib, though.

[1911fan]

The conventional wisdom, supported by 75 years (1935-2010) of shooting bad guys, is that the 357 Magnum 125 grain JHP round running around 1450 FPS has a PROVEN track record of putting bad guys down and/or 6 feet under.

Yep. I switched from .45 ACP to .357 Magnum, but that was mainly because I decided I was too simpleminded and lazy to properly maintain an autoloader.

J. Edgar Hoover did tell the occasional fib, though.

Mainly about his wearing dresses and why getting dirty pictures of politicians and movie stars was important to fighting crime......

[hoel6466]

Yeah, the Garand sucks compared to a handgun.

This isn't the first time I've heard mention of this. It wasn't in reference to a Garand but an M1 Carbine. I what I heard was that it failed to penetrate some winter clothing. Now I wasn't there, I didn't experience this, but I've heard of this on more than one occasion from a few sources.

[JoeH]

Bandit357-

You are going to be carrying a semi-auto sidearm. Discussion of the .357 Mag is irrelevant for your circumstances (some semi-autos are chambered in that round but none that you'll want to carry).

.357 Mag, 4" or greater barrel, JHP is a premier round for terminal ballistics.

As far as your duty piece, the 40 S&W is a good combination of capacity and ballistics. That said, the .45 Auto is better. My recommendation is to go with a .45 with good capacity like a M&P45 (10+1).

Lastly, focus on your software, not your hardware. It's the Indian, not the arrow.

[mmcnx2]

My comments are based on what I see as your total ignorance on how LE agencies mandate carry guns, in most cases dictating not only caliber but brand and model(s). Now some of the small forces permit some flexibility but that fact you asked about a revolver caliber(yes I know you can get 357 in a magnum research, but it is hardly a daily officer carry weapon) given you'll end up carrying a auto.

Had you not indicated you were looking for carry gun as a LE, my response would have been none or a link to one of the endless posts on picking a caliber.

The realty is most guys carry something from a .380 to a .45, including everything in between. And then there are a few that carry stuff on either end of that. In the end they all have the capability to be fatal(I believe statistically more people die from .22 wounds than any other single caliber). Shoot what you can shoot well, practice like you'll use it, pray you never need to use it and know a great lawyer if you have to use it.

[DeanC]

An old timer I know that fought in the Korean War told me some stories about how uneffective their rifles were becuase the Koreans would rap them selves up so tight with fabric, the bullets would go through them and they would keep on coming. He said it kept all of their limbs intact, and the only way they could stop them was by using their .45 with a harball round. He said he sure put a lot more trust into his pistol.

Generally, the 357mag at the muzzle has the same FPS as the 30 Carbine at 100 yards (110gr bullet).

[bandit357]

My comments are based on what I see as your total ignorance on how LE agencies mandate carry guns, in most cases dictating not only caliber but brand and model(s). Now some of the small forces permit some flexibility but that fact you asked about a revolver caliber(yes I know you can get 357 in a magnum research, but it is hardly a daily officer carry weapon) given you'll end up carrying a auto.

Had you not indicated you were looking for carry gun as a LE, my response would have been none or a link to one of the endless posts on picking a caliber.

The realty is most guys carry something from a .380 to a .45, including everything in between. And then there are a few that carry stuff on either end of that. In the end they all have the capability to be fatal(I believe statistically more people die from .22 wounds than any other single caliber). Shoot what you can shoot well, practice like you'll use it, pray you never need to use it and know a great lawyer if you have to use it.

I wouldn't go as far to say I am ignorant, I shoot a model 31, .357 sig, depending on where I work, I might be able to use that weapon, and if I am not mistaken State Patrol has the options of using that round. So when I hear about a .357 mag not doing the trick in some cases, I wonder if the .357 sig is a good choice if that option is available. Your correct that many departments issue you what they want you to have, and many others give you some flexibilty, not to say I might work out of state, where the .357 sig round is becoming more popular in a many departmentss so no it is not all about the mag round! So I find ignorance to be out of the question. Thanks agian for the input

[justaguy]

Just make sure the gun you choose doesn't squirt water, and if the gods are on your side it will say "Glock" on it.

[EJSG19]

VoR swoops in...

Regarding .357 not working or "getting the job done" sometimes. Of course. There is not a caliber made that will work every time. That isn't the way things work. As stated before, there are documented cases of a person taking anything from a .22LR to a 12 gauge slug and getting away.

That right there tells you that no caliber made is a 100% sure bet. Whats wrong with something the power of .357 mag? Nothing. You can also successfully stop a threat with a lot less power, or a lot more power.

Looking for the end all, be all, in a specific caliber is like telling a Democrat why they are wrong. You generally won't get real far.

Where is the .357 magnum hitting the target? I bet those guys that got away weren't hit in the heart or the brain most of those times where they got away. There is more to the equation than the caliber that was used. So unfortunately, just picking a "perfect" caliber still doesn't give you any promises.

[ironfoot]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

[Seismic Sam]

Thank you ironfoot!!

To repeat what I said, once the bullet is out of the barrel and flying towards the bad guy, the gun it came out of is pretty much irrelevant. And like I also said before, the 357 SIG was expressly designed to equal the ballistics of the 357 125 grain JHP round that has gained great favor with LEO's over the years for putting bad guys down. Ironfoot's table lists a one shot stop in 96% of the cases with the 357 mag in this case. There's nothing much better, period. So: 357 mag revolver can hold 6, 7, or recently 8 shots. A 357 SIG holds 12 with a flush mag. An EAA 38 Super running 9x23 Winchester at 52,000 PSI holds 18 and duplicates the same speed with the same bullet. Not a standard LEO option, but it appears the 357 SIG is.

In addition, bottleneck pistol cases feed very well in semi-auto actions, and SIG has a fundamental reputation for reliability in operation and feeding.

[Pinnacle]

Being a perspective law enforcement officer, I wonder what is the most effective caliber to use. I have always had respect for the .357 round, but recently I am starting to wonder if it is as bad-a** as some people think it is. I personly know of a man of medium build who took three rounds to the center mass, two in the lungs and one in the kidneys, at a distance of 5 yards and then got into his vehicle and drove to a neighbors house. Also seeing training videos of officer's who have used that round and ended up being shot and killed because of minimum penetration.

I would like to hear any one's opionion on what they think is prefferably the best round? My thoughts are now leaning towards nothing but a .45, but many agency's like to use a .40 cal. and now I even wonder how effective my .357 sig round is. I would think with the amount of velocity these two .357 rounds present, penitration and expansion would not be a problem when hitting a hard surface, of course .40 cal. has great ballistics, but does that round have enough ummmpppffff to do the job. I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Whereas there is no magic bullet out there and there are no absolutes in Ballistics other than the facts as they are presented at the time they become evident - the 357 Magum is the gold standard by which all others are measured.

A solidly constructed 125gr JHP (Hornady XTP would be my choice....) is about as good as it gets...... Read Sams post again - he is old, but wise....

[Thunderjohn]

I know this doesn't answer your question about the .357mag, but the Sig round is on here.
I think I've put this chart up before, but here it is again.
It only lists semi-autos and it's Winchester's Ranger ammo.

As stated the .357sig round outperforms the rest on this list, including 45+P when it comes to energy.
And the 165gr 40sw is right up there too.

Click on the chart unless you have really good eyes.

[mnglocker]

Read Sams post again - he is old, but wise....

You forgot ugly.