How effective is the stopping power of a.357 Mag.

[justaguy]

Read Sams post again - he is old, but wise....

You forgot ugly.

Normally I would applaud you padding your pathetic post count, but......Lets not post crap into new members threads. Some here feel it alienates the new members.

[DeanC]

As stated the .357sig round outperforms the rest on this list, including 45+P when it comes to energy.

Many people don't rely much on energy figures anymore because they are skewed towards giving too much value to velocity.

[Thunderjohn]

I'm not sure it would matter to me if I was hit by a little guy with fasts hands or a big guy with slow hands.
Kind of like hitting a baseball. Bat speed is what you're after.
Energy is important so long as it doesn't pass completely through.
Just my $1/50

[EJSG19]

I think a bullet can kill you several different ways. instant CNS shut down, blood loss, lead poisoning, infection...

It all works, some faster than others. I've seen no scientific formula which equals an instant kill 100% of the time. The only projectiles which would do that, when hitting you anywhere on or near your body, aren't really single man portable.

Velocity seems to help, energy also, penetration without over penetration (I'd much rather over penetrate than under-penetrate though) , size of the wound matters, number of wounds, etc. So far all I see is 1. Bigger is better (bullet and speed) and 2. Depends where that bullet hits you.

Do people not understand that there are no absolutes in shooting/getting shot? Its statistics, and statistically .357 magnum will kick somebody's ass, but its a bell curve like anything else, it can still fail. The bell is just a bit wider than .22LR, .38 spl, etc. So statistically one caliber is better than another, but you can't really test for this scientifically, because we don't have consistent information between shootings. One person gets shot 2'' above the heart. Another person gets shot 4'' below the heart. Another takes the same bullet 5'' to the right of the heart. Another gets hit in the head. Obviously that would make a difference. Scientific method would tell you that your data pool is flawed and inconsistent. A person can get hit by anything from a .177 pellet to a 50 GI and walk away. Statistically, that'll happen more often with the .177. Not rocket science. Belaboring the differences in all the favorite calibers in the world, although interesting, doesn't amount to much in real life. Somebody gets hit with a .357 or a .45acp or a .44 special, the marginal differences between those calibers isn't going to mean a whole lot. They're all proven capable of doing their jobs, otherwise the calibers would not be issued still today.

We've said it before. Unless 1,000 people willingly line up and all get shot with the same exact gun, in the same exact place, and all those people are 100% identical twins, then you'll never have scientifically proven data to go off of. So unfortunately, there is no proof, other than looking at how many people have gotten shot with XX caliber and died. Or how fast they died, or whatever. Sam posted that a long time ago. .357 has dumped a lot of people. If the OP is going into law enforcement, I'd hope the LE agency would cover firearms and ballistics enough to give a working knowledge on this stuff. If they tell you you should carry a .17 HMR revolver, I'd be concerned. Just as much if they told you to carry a .500 S&W. I bet they'll say anything from .357 mag/sig/9mm/.40 to .45 acp is fine. I wouldn't concern myself a whole lot between those parameters.


Now ending my blow hard, know it all, long time forum re-hasher rant of the day... preaching to the choir here mostly.

[DeanC]

This gets at what I am talking about: The Myth of Muzzle Energy

Energy figures are not real useful in comparing different calibers.

[Paul]

Good link, interesting read... Thanks Bean.

[Holland&Holland]

This gets at what I am talking about: The Myth of Muzzle Energy

Energy figures are not real useful in comparing different calibers.

Got it. I say skip the .357 and go with a .243 in a thompson center encore. Think of the effective range you can get. Put a Leupold handgun scope on top of that and ...

Seriously, good article Dean

[justaguy]

I think a bullet can kill you several different ways. instant CNS shut down, blood loss, lead poisoning, infection...

It all works, some faster than others. I've seen no scientific formula which equals an instant kill 100% of the time. The only projectiles which would do that, when hitting you anywhere on or near your body, aren't really single man portable.

Velocity seems to help, energy also, penetration without over penetration (I'd much rather over penetrate than under-penetrate though) , size of the wound matters, number of wounds, etc. So far all I see is 1. Bigger is better (bullet and speed) and 2. Depends where that bullet hits you.

Do people not understand that there are no absolutes in shooting/getting shot? Its statistics, and statistically .357 magnum will kick somebody's ass, but its a bell curve like anything else, it can still fail. The bell is just a bit wider than .22LR, .38 spl, etc. So statistically one caliber is better than another, but you can't really test for this scientifically, because we don't have consistent information between shootings. One person gets shot 2'' above the heart. Another person gets shot 4'' below the heart. Another takes the same bullet 5'' to the right of the heart. Another gets hit in the head. Obviously that would make a difference. Scientific method would tell you that your data pool is flawed and inconsistent. A person can get hit by anything from a .177 pellet to a 50 GI and walk away. Statistically, that'll happen more often with the .177. Not rocket science. Belaboring the differences in all the favorite calibers in the world, although interesting, doesn't amount to much in real life. Somebody gets hit with a .357 or a .45acp or a .44 special, the marginal differences between those calibers isn't going to mean a whole lot. They're all proven capable of doing their jobs, otherwise the calibers would not be issued still today.

We've said it before. Unless 1,000 people willingly line up and all get shot with the same exact gun, in the same exact place, and all those people are 100% identical twins, then you'll never have scientifically proven data to go off of. So unfortunately, there is no proof, other than looking at how many people have gotten shot with XX caliber and died. Or how fast they died, or whatever. Sam posted that a long time ago. .357 has dumped a lot of people. If the OP is going into law enforcement, I'd hope the LE agency would cover firearms and ballistics enough to give a working knowledge on this stuff. If they tell you you should carry a .17 HMR revolver, I'd be concerned. Just as much if they told you to carry a .500 S&W. I bet they'll say anything from .357 mag/sig/9mm/.40 to .45 acp is fine. I wouldn't concern myself a whole lot between those parameters.


Now ending my blow hard, know it all, long time forum re-hasher rant of the day... preaching to the choir here mostly.

This is really "going against the grain".

[ironfoot]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/stopping_power_dialogue.htm

[Pat Cannon]

If you want to go on reading about this forever, google 'marshall sanow fackler'.

The bottom line, in my amateur opinion, is: .357 Magnum is excellent, .357 SIG is excellent, .45 ACP is excellent, .40 Smith & Wesson is excellent, 10mm is excellent... for a handgun, but you'll see examples of failure of all of them. For a truly reliable instant stop you need a burst of .50 BMG or, maybe, a 12 gauge. Or a car, or a piano from the roof. We tolerate the marginal effectiveness of handgun fire only because the handgun is portable enough to bring along every time you don't think you'll need a gun.

[ironfoot]

Its so hard to find a piano and a roof when you need one.

[MisterOblivious]

Its so hard to find a piano and a roof when you need one.

Thank god there's no requirement to conceal in this state!

"Is that a piano in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

[Pinnacle]

Read Sams post again - he is old, but wise....

You forgot ugly.

I dont feel it necessary to add insult to injury.

[Holland&Holland]

If you want to go on reading about this forever, google 'marshall sanow fackler'.

The bottom line, in my amateur opinion, is: .357 Magnum is excellent, .357 SIG is excellent, .45 ACP is excellent, .40 Smith & Wesson is excellent, 10mm is excellent... for a handgun, but you'll see examples of failure of all of them. For a truly reliable instant stop you need a burst of .50 BMG or, maybe, a 12 gauge. Or a car, or a piano from the roof. We tolerate the marginal effectiveness of handgun fire only because the handgun is portable enough to bring along every time you don't think you'll need a gun.

You forgot mortar fire...

[John T]

I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Are you about done listening to the sarcasim? Need truth?

Listen to the men that have been there. You know who they are.