Carry permit instructor certification

[1911fan]

Tim, Please note that just a short while ago, this issue sort of boiled over, which is why some people have trepidation in responding. It is not trying to avoid your question, nor to bad mouth other instructors, but someone tried to stir the pot and lots of questions regarding ethics, values and morals were raised, some in quite an ugly fashion.

In light of that, there are a lot of wounds which have just started to scab over, and picking at them, (in this group, it would be clearly unintentionally) is just not something people want to do.

The self certifying route is regarded by many as the least headache because it gives you only two "Masters" to serve, that is the BCA and the customer as far as who you are responsible.

Now, I am very sure that if you decided to self certify, and you came back and PM'd several of the instructors here about sitting in on one of their classes to give you something to compare your class with established classes, you would have no trouble gaining entrance. For the most part, this is a very helpful and very supportive group of people, and they are not going to leave you out in the cold, but they want the whole system to work.

[westberg]

I'm amazed that one cannot ask a simple question: which organization would you recommend? The responses to that question and the numerous PMs I've received, in addition to a few years lurking and reading hundreds of posts here and the "other forum" is the basis of my conclusion.

Tim,

You seem to be a well read person and articulate, as you mentioned above have a few years reading this forum and the other (although you don't mention what other forum). What are your thoughts on the training organizations you have been researching, I am assuming you have done some research you seem from your few posts that you would have done some. Which one are you leaning toward.

I don't know anything about them, but you could try here http://www.aacfi.com/trainers/ they seem to have a lot of trainers.

[Pinnacle]

non english removed

[timgun]

Phorvic,

I do agree with you, and one day I'm going participate in one of those classes you suck at.


1911fan,

Thanks for the clarification. It was definitely not my intentional to start a war. I asked a simple question as an outsider, not unlike 'which gun shop should I'd patronize?' A few weeks ago some one asked the exact questions and the dealers were ranked to the point, which ones had attitudes or prices sucked.

I think self-certifying route and staying out of the 'community' would be my best option. I intensely dislike disharmony.

I also have a love affair with 1911s.

Thank you for your explanation.

Tim


westberg,

Thank you for your response.

At the present, I'd like to keep my distance to all organization. The MADFI appears the most active, but so many instructors has left it and been subsequently 'blacklisted' that I do not know what to think. In addition, people have PMd me and warned about the association. There seems to exists a lot of attitude in that org.

AACFI is run by the guys who made the carry possible here in MN. Their price is rather hefty (not an obstacle), and I do not know what else is involved. The people I've been in contact with have been nothing but courteous.

Koscielski's is an option, but, again, I know nothing about them.

There are a few other options, but I think I will go the self-certification route. Less hassle and people to deal with. The only thing I want to accomplish is to get as many Minnesotans certified to carry a gun as possible.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Tim


Deleted by mod

That explains a lot. I'm sorry that happened.

As you can see, I'm leaning towards going on my own.

Deleted by mod

Tim

[ttousi]

Phorvic,

I do agree with you, and one day I'm going participate in one of those classes you suck at.


1911fan,

Thanks for the clarification. It was definitely not my intentional to start a war. I asked a simple question as an outsider, not unlike 'which gun shop should I'd patronize?' A few weeks ago some one asked the exact questions and the dealers were ranked to the point, which ones had attitudes or prices sucked.

I think self-certifying route and staying out of the 'community' would be my best option. I intensely dislike disharmony.

I also have a love affair with 1911s.

Thank you for your explanation.

Tim


westberg,

Thank you for your response.

At the present, I'd like to keep my distance to all organization. The MADFI appears the most active, but so many instructors has left it and been subsequently 'blacklisted' that I do not know what to think. In addition, people have PMd me and warned about the association. There seems to exists a lot of attitude in that org.

AACFI is run by the guys who made the carry possible here in MN. Their price is rather hefty (not an obstacle), and I do not know what else is involved. The people I've been in contact with have been nothing but courteous.

Koscielski's is an option, but, again, I know nothing about them.

There are a few other options, but I think I will go the self-certification route. Less hassle and people to deal with. The only thing I want to accomplish is to get as many Minnesotans certified to carry a gun as possible.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Tim


الصليبية كافر

That explains a lot. I'm sorry that happened.

As you can see, I'm leaning towards going on my own.

ما شاء الله

Tim

OK folks here we go

1. Pinnacle and Tim..........english is the accepted language here.....edit or change the comments or I will.
2. Tim the comments about the MADFI organization are out of line. No one in this thread has said anything negative or demeaning about any organizations. There is no need to. As far as the sources of your information.........
PM's from someone you don't know ? Have you spoken with anyone from MADFI?
You state you have had contact with AACFI.........why not MADFI

There are over 100 certifying organizations.........why have you only mentioned three?
Your postings have gone from I want to be certified as an instructor to openly putting down one group and praising another.

Your intent could be perceived as
*Trolling ........you come in asking questions but seem to know an awful lot right out of the gate
*Advertising for AACFI
*A person with an "agenda" against MADFI

Consider this to be a word of advice from the mod team and advisory board. Future postings of this nature may get you formal warnings and a ban.

Pinnacle if you know this person personally I would appreciate a call from you.

nuff said

[farmerj]

http://translate.google.com/#ar|en|

No doubt.....

[westberg]

There are a few other options, but I think I will go the self-certification route. Less hassle and people to deal with. The only thing I want to accomplish is to get as many Minnesotans certified to carry a gun as possible.

Tim,

With this single goal and you have been researching for a couple of years now who or where have you been sending friends, family and acquaintances to for training? I'm not an instructor but run across people with a interest all of the time so I'm guessing you have to. So who do you recommend?

[Pinnacle]

ttousi

No I do not know him - seems ok

I pointed out a couple of things and that is all in a PM where we sort of hashed this out and the issues with demeaning any instructor Org and the benefit of going it alone

Delete my post if you would like - there is nothing offensive there. I will delete it if you would like.

[gtc]

I am only speaking for myself on this one, but to answer Tim's question atleast what I think is his question,,, I will not certify anyone under my credentials as if you do something stupid, like oh shooting yourself in the foot, during class, now Im the one who looks stupid for certifying you as an insructor. Yes we are all 2nd Amendment supporters "and Brothers" of the gun beliefs, but that doesnt mean we want to lose income because someone did something stupid and put a blemish on our name. You may be able to find organizations out there that will charge you a fee to teach for them, and also allow you to teach on your own, and then in return pay them a portion of what you made.... I guess my advice is to think of it as your own private business, which the instructors have to do.... But think of it as being an auto mechanic and you owning your own garage, you have someone approach you off the street and asks if they can add their own building, take your customers, and really have no positive effect on your business, sound like a good deal--- I think this is where most instructors are coming from, atleast this is how i think f it...

[timgun]

westberg asked : "What are your thoughts on the training organizations you have been researching"

And I wrote what I thought of the one's I 'd researched: AACFI, MADfi, Kosciwhatever. I'm sorry if my opinions and facts hurt your feelings.

(I did not know there are 100 organizations that certify carry instructors.)

As to AACFI, I was in contact with them on unrelated matter, and they appeared very cordial. I'm sorry if this hurt your feelings.

Since Pinnacle's signature was "Crusader Infidel," I thought addressing him as such would be appropriate. Other than that, I merely ended each post with wishing well in Arabic he seemed to be interested in; and I do not need a translator for that.

I'm sorry I violated all the rules of Your forum and exceed the limits of freedom of expression. Now you can continue lording over the rest.

Now please do me the honor of banning me for life - I'll carry that as a badge of honor.

Tim

P.S. All those who PMd me, thank you. I really appreciate your input.

[westberg]

Tim your basis for assuming my feeling are hurt is what? I really don't care what you do or don't do and if you think my feeling would be hurt by anything you said your sadly mistaken.

[Joat]

I will not certify anyone under my credentials as if you do something stupid, like oh shooting yourself in the foot, during class, now Im the one who looks stupid for certifying you as an insructor.

How is this different than certifying some one for carry who later does something stupid?

[ttousi]

westberg asked : "What are your thoughts on the training organizations you have been researching"

And I wrote what I thought of the one's I 'd researched: AACFI, MADfi, Kosciwhatever. I'm sorry if my opinions and facts hurt your feelings.

(I did not know there are 100 organizations that certify carry instructors.)

As to AACFI, I was in contact with them on unrelated matter, and they appeared very cordial. I'm sorry if this hurt your feelings.

Since Pinnacle's signature was "Crusader Infidel," I thought addressing him as such would be appropriate. Other than that, I merely ended each post with wishing well in Arabic he seemed to be interested in; and I do not need a translator for that.

I'm sorry I violated all the rules of Your forum and exceed the limits of freedom of expression. Now you can continue lording over the rest.

Now please do me the honor of banning me for life - I'll carry that as a badge of honor.

Tim

P.S. All those who PMd me, thank you. I really appreciate your input.

I would, for the sake of my own curiosity, like to better understand your research technique. Maybe I'm a little slow today but I am clueless here.

You have called out 3 organizations by name.........2 large and 1 very small yet you don't know that the BCA maintains a list of well over 100 organizations. How did you come across these 3 organizations?

Secondly the "Your Forum" emphasis..........was that directed at westberg or the group in general?

Thirdly.............sorry, you don't get the ban "badge of Honor" yet. You have to earn it. So far, as I see it, you have changed direction and focus several times, made disparaging remarks about an organization with out any real substantive back-up and not answered some direct questions.

Fourth..... the comment "Now you can continue lording over the rest." couldn't be further from the truth. It has simply been pointed out by several that it is in poor taste to make some of the comments you have made.

Besides I gave up "lording" .........it doesn't work for me.

You're up

[Bessy]

I don't understand where the MADFI hate comes from, but I've only been teaching as a MADFI instructor for 1.5 years, so maybe I missed something. I have yet to meet an instructor from any organization that I thought was doing a ******* job, although I have heard of a few via students, though I don't know what organization they belong to, nor would I call it out if I did. I think the MADFI organization does a good job, I've also meet AACFI instructors that I thought were excellent, I don't have any experience with any organizations, so I can't speak to them.

If you are looking to get into the PTC training business I would advise you to find a mentor. I had the help of Jon Abel. Jon is a hell of a guy. Extremely knowledgeable, and an excellent teacher. I love sitting in on other peoples classes, I always manage to find something to take back and put into mine.

[gtc]

I will not certify anyone under my credentials as if you do something stupid, like oh shooting yourself in the foot, during class, now Im the one who looks stupid for certifying you as an insructor.

How is this different than certifying some one for carry who later does something stupid?

I find it easier to stomach that someone did something stupid as a user, instead of as the "subject matter expert"... if its something that is news worthy the instructor will be the one to get crucified, where a user, can always place the blame back on their instructor, the way life works, well I dont want someone else out their putting my name on something that I dont have a way of verifieing what they are doing or saying is completely correct or that i agree with..