Question about the permit to carry class!!!

[mrokern]

As far as backup weapons are concerned... It's becoming more and more rare for cops as a whole (statewide) to carry a backup gun on duty, let alone off duty.

Why is that?

Well, for a few reasons I guess. First off a lot of departments don't authorize the carrying of backup weapons. Most cops don't really feel it's necessary as the vast majority go an entire career without ever using their gun, aside from putting down injured animals, qualification shoots, and the like. It's another item to carry, so it becomes an inconvenience.

It's been said here a few times in other threads which I agree with, that cops are not "gun people" in general. Just taking a rough guess based on my experience... I would say that no more than 10% or so go to the range or shoot on their own outside of department mandated shoots. (aside from hunting of course)

And like I said in the above paragraph, not a ton of cops even bother to carry off duty. I think, for a number of reasons, that their mentality about carrying, or its necessarity as some see it, differs than the majority on this board.

Thanks for the response...I guess that tracks with my experience, now that I think about it. Most of my friends in LE do carry off-duty, but then again, most of them are gun folks, too.

-Mark

[Don L]

From what I hear from the LE folks I know, that 10% figure is accurate for both the percentage that carry off duty, and the percentage that have an interest in off duty sport shooting.

[gtc]

I read Most of the Posts but ended up skipping to the end to add my comments so I dont intend to re-invent the wheel, if it has already been done. For Starters Just because you went to school to become a police officer in Minnesota, doesnt mean you will ever be one, so the attitude of, since i went through this I shouldnt have to attitude is honestly not going to impress anyone. Most of us on here have either a Military or Law enforcement background, and most feel the laws are pretty rediculous but, do understand why they are there. Personally Just because you attended some courses at Alex Tech doesnt mean you know **** about when to use a firearm for self defense as a private citizen, which is why most departments now days are not allowing their own officers to carry their weapons (off duty)as they tend to get into too much trouble, take for instance a local Golden Valley officer who told his arresting officers they couldnt arrest him becuase he too was a cop, sounds pretty stupid to me ( And yes he too was carrying his firearm).... Additionally Officers are very prone to drawing their firearm, for everything..... Try doing that as a private citizen and see where that lands you... I currently teach Private security officers; firearm courses, to include use of force; in which i very often have licensed police officers attend my classes. many of them always comment as to it being great that they are required to attend these "not so fun" courses as when you are off duty the laws change dramatically and you tend to forget that because you are so use to your day to day routine... I guess lastly, if your training was so damn good up at Alex tech then maybe you should approach your instructors and question them as to why they havent registered with the BCA to become an approved organization so that way you wouldnt of had to waste those precious 6-8 hours of your life.....

[cobb]

I guess lastly, if your training was so damn good up at Alex tech then maybe you should approach your instructors and question them as to why they havent registered with the BCA to become an approved organization so that way you wouldnt of had to waste those precious 6-8 hours of your life.....

When you mean register with the BCA, I assume you mean as a approved training organizations with Minnesota, and if their course met state standards, that Alex course could be used to apply for Minnesota permit to carry.

Good point and interesting thought.

I will assume someone will point out why not.

[westhope]

A sheriff MAY accept your LEO training if he wants, his choice. He MUST accept training by a instructor aproved by a BCA certified organization.

624.714

(e) A sheriff must accept the training described in this subdivision as meeting the requirement
in subdivision 2, paragraph (b), for training in the safe use of a pistol. A sheriff may also accept
other satisfactory evidence of training in the safe use of a pistol.

[cobb]

A sheriff MAY accept your LEO training if he wants, his choice. He MUST accept training by a instructor aproved by a BCA certified organization.

624.714

(e) A sheriff must accept the training described in this subdivision as meeting the requirement
in subdivision 2, paragraph (b), for training in the safe use of a pistol. A sheriff may also accept
other satisfactory evidence of training in the safe use of a pistol.

The MAY accept isn't going to fly, at least locally. Sheriff Peterson was VERY restrictive in issuing permits under the old law because of the possibility of a lawsuit. He told me this face to face, in his office when he said that he was denying my application prior 2003. So I would bet that if the training isn't listed on the BCA approved list, Blue Earth County will not accept it and I bet there will be others like Ramsey County with the same attitude.

[bandit357]

It's interesting how some people view my question, I by all means don't think I should automatically be qualified to be able to to carry just because of some training I had. I just wanted to know why I wouldn't be eligible for the permit to carry through training I have taken vs a 8 hour class for the permit to carry. and for the fact it was not a waste of my time to go to the class. I do appreciate the people who can look at things in a more positive perspective, instead of being anal about every thing. I don't know and that is why I ask, and for that I get told I probly wont ever be a cop, bla bla bla, you can keep that bs. The negative things people say dont bother me, I just like to think most people are decent enough to give some positive feed back instead being an a**..., it's good though I am starting to see what the touchy subjects are in these chat forum

[WWJD]

Read 624.714
Do you know the difference between a revolver and a semi automatic pistol?
Can you load /unload both?
Do they teach that at Alex?

What about duty to retreat??? Thats a big one, I bet they didn't cover!

[aviator]

I'll take a WAG as to why your LEO training doesn't automatically qualify you for a permit to carry. It would be "course objective". The objective of the LEO training does not necessarily touch on many of the subjects that affect the non-LEO community. So, the syllabus is appropriately different.

And, as others have said, Minnesota cerifies training agencies and Alex tech is not one of them. Why don't you ask them why they are not? You may get an surprizingly enlightened answer. It may well be a liablility issue.

So, congratulations on taking the PTC class and although somewhat redundant I'm sure, we'd all be interested to hear what you learned.

[45Badger]

So, is there a snowball's chance in hell that the good people of Minnesota will ever decide that folks can get concealed carry permits without spending a chunk of money and time? I'm soon to be a resident, and the requirments seem to be a pain in the butt. I'm a NRA certified BP and PPITH instructore, have carried for dozen or so years, and pretty actively compete.

Is the information imparted in these classes so unique? In PA (shall issue), you go to Sheriff's office, apply, wait a week or two and get approived (if not a felon, wife-beater, etc). Go back to sheriff's office, they take your picture, and you walk out with permit. Costs about $30 for 5 years. Is it too much to hope for this level of simplicity in Minnesota? I don't think that PA carry permit holders have run amok and killed/injured any more folks than those ion MN. Why the burdensome process?

[Dick Unger]

So, is there a snowball's chance in hell that the good people of Minnesota will ever decide that folks can get concealed carry permits without spending a chunk of money and time? I'm soon to be a resident, and the requirments seem to be a pain in the butt. I'm a NRA certified BP and PPITH instructore, have carried for dozen or so years, and pretty actively compete.

Is the information imparted in these classes so unique? In PA (shall issue), you go to Sheriff's office, apply, wait a week or two and get approived (if not a felon, wife-beater, etc). Go back to sheriff's office, they take your picture, and you walk out with permit. Costs about $30 for 5 years. Is it too much to hope for this level of simplicity in Minnesota? I don't think that PA carry permit holders have run amok and killed/injured any more folks than those ion MN. Why the burdensome process?

Do you know the Minnesota laws on self defense? Can you apply these laws? Is a LEO in a different position than a private citizen? Exactly who to call as soon as the SHTF? Do different police agencies do things differently? What the gun ban signs actually mean?

Disclaimer here IANAFI

I agree, we shouldn't need a class or even a permit. But class is fun, and if you want to stay out of trouble, you need to know how to apply some very specific Minnesota laws. You'll probably get your money's worth.

[mrokern]

I'm still amazed we have the laws we have, with the legislature we have. Let's face it, MN isn't exactly a GOP stronghold...especially the metro.

[Don L]

+1 on that.

[cobb]

I'm still amazed we have the laws we have, with the legislature we have. Let's face it, MN isn't exactly a GOP stronghold...especially the metro.

Well, if some keep rubbing it in their face, then no one should be surprised when the Minnesota carry law is drastically changed for the worse.

[bandit357]

If I am not mistaken, it was a democrat that did sign for the permit to carry class to be allowed in MN right?