What cartridge is dead?

[cobb]

Since I just acquired a .17 Mach II, I have run across several threads on forums that think that the .17 Mach II is a dead round. I have also heard this for years about the .41 magnum, but S&W reintroduced the model 58, but with the stupid lock in the side plate. I have shot a .221 Fireball for many years and remember about 10 years ago there was a scare that Remington was going to discontinue making brass for it because of it's lack of popularity.

I think the .45 GAP is the best candidate to disappear soon. There may be some limited interest, but it was conceived as a defense round and for that purpose will have a hard time surviving. The .17 Mach II and the .221 Fireball are good varmint rounds and fit a nitch, the .41 magnum is a good hunting round. The 45 GAP is what? Not a competition round, not a hunting round, not plinking round, just a very narrow following for self defense. Some other cartridges survive because they are reloaded for a particular purpose, like the .22 Hornet, but hand loading a .45 GAP for self defense?

[Paul]

I have shot a .221 Fireball for many years and remember about 10 years ago there was a scare that Remington was going to discontinue making brass for it because of it's lack of popularity.

I have an XP-100 in .221 Fireball. Great gun, great round. I thought I saw a year or so ago that Remington was making a rifle chambered in that round again.

[westhope]

No cartridge is ever dead, there are old nuts like me that will always keep shooting it just because it is an odd round in a rifle we saw as a 14 year old and fell in love with the rifle. Like my 401 WSL only made for one rifle 1910 Winchester (my rifle made in 1919). Cases no longer made, bullets no longer made, great fun to keep it shooting a few rounds. Are their better performing rounds, yes.

I also keep the 22 Hornet going. For most of my varmint shooting, it is a great round for me. 50 to 200 yard range. Varmints up to coyote size. Quiet. Not really an super accurate round (3/4 inch groups at 100 yards) but better than I can usually shoot. A little tricky to reload, but that is half the fun.

For self defense, I will stick with the popular standard calibers. 45 GAP? I have always asked why too. (I know it was to fit a 45 caliber in a 9 mm length round.)

Oh, I just realized that this is the 100 year aniversary of the introduction of the 1910 Winchester 401 WSL !!!! I will shoot a few extra rounds this year!

[cobb]

45 GAP? I have always asked why too. (I know it was to fit a 45 caliber in a 9 mm length round.)

That was some of the hype, .45 acp performance in a 9mm size grip or frame. From what I have read, that is true with the 185 grain load, a toss up with the 200 grain, but the .45 GAP cannot match the performance a .45 acp with a 230 grain bullet, the GAP case is too small to hold the volume of powder needed.

[DeanC]

With companies like Old Western Scrounger around it seems like cartridges will never really die.

But, the big worry are the rimfire rounds because it is practically impossible to reload them yourself. When they get old and out of demand you have to wait for OWS to make a run, which they only do once every few years. The guys with these old rimfires sort of treat them like wine collectors. They get the gun out once a year or so and savor the shooting experience.

My neighbor found an old box of .32 Long RF a couple years ago in his basement which we sold on Gunbroker for a pretty penny.

[westhope]

Yup, the old rimfire calibers would be a reloading problem. But I would bet there are a group of old rimfire reloaders that have figured some way to reload them.

Found this: The rimfire cartridges used by the Henry were not intended for reloading, unlike the later stronger-cased .44-40 center fire rounds used in the Model 1873 Winchester (these had a replaceable primer in the center of the base). This fact did not deter the Indians from finding ways to use the expended cartridges again and again. A common method of reloading rimfire cases was to soak the heads off matches and cover the interior of the case's rim with the phosphorus, which, with luck, would give enough flash to detonate the powder when the hammer crimped the rim. It must have worked, for the Henry continued in use among the Sioux and Cheyenne well after the center fire arms became available. A survey of cartridge cases recovered from Indian positions at the Little Bighorn battle site registered the .44 rimfires as the second most numerous type at 380 cases, after the .45 Springfield carbine cartridges, which totaled 969. Some of the Henry cases bore two or three pairs of firing-pin indentations as proof of their reloading.

[Seismic Sam]

Yup. *I'm a weird old fart with weird old cartridges. Got a 440 Corbon Magnum barrel for my DE 50. It's a hyper velocity 44 made from a necked down 50 AE case. Puts a 240 grain bullet out a 6" barrel at 1600 even. Magnum Research hoped its lesser recoil would draw more people into the DE camp, but it was the magnum turkey cartridge of all times. Only a couple of hundred 6" and 10" barreled versions ever made, but it's fun to shoot.

Got into the 41AE by accident, after finding that Pony Express had 1,000 NEW cases for under 20 cents apiece. Got a GT-41 from Tanfoglio that performs magnificently with the round, and a 9mm barrel for the same gun. Managed to snag a Browning Mark I 41AE barrel and mag off Gunbroker, so I have another two caliber set, and this is so rare that no production guns were ever offered. Sadly, the hammer bite from a 41AE Browning is not fun, so it's mostly a curiousity.

Used to shoot a 256 Winchester Magnum in my TC, which is a 357 case necked down to 25 caliber. Sold the TC, and the 256 never lived up to expectation as far as accuracy, and I had incipient case head seperations too.

Back in the 70's, was an owner of a 44 Automag, and it was a magnificent gun to shoot. Unfortunately, it kept breaking, and I finally traded it back to (in broken condition) Harry Sanford for a stainless 1911 45 and a 380.

[farmerj]

45 ACP....

[MrVvrroomm]

.45 GAP

Five out of 49 State Police Agencies have adopted the G37: NY, PA, SC, GA & FL (Hawaii has no State Police Agency)

As long as there are LE agencies using the .45 GAP there will be factory ammo available.

I bought a pistol chambered in .40 S&W back in the early 90's. Ammo was nearly impossible to find. I wasn't reloading back then. I ended up selling the pistol because I couldn't find ammo for it.

I know the GAP is not going to enjoy the same success as the .40s&w, but it's not dead or leaving us any time in the near future.

[Pat Cannon]

45 ACP....

You forgot the .

[Paul]

(Hawaii has no State Police Agency)

Steve McGarrett would disagree with you.

[Ironbear]

Seems like cartridges never really die. The .41 Action Express still limps along, even though it's reason for existence was largely obliterated by the .40 S&W.

As for .32 Rimfire... I remember burning through a couple of boxes of my dad's, before we realized it couldn't be replaced. Nice little rifle though...

[cobb]

OK, let me rephrase the subject line.

What cartridge do you believe is fading from popularity and hanging on by only a bur on the case?

[Paul]

.25 auto.... I guess I don't have any basis for that opinion, but it just seems like a caliber that serves no useful purpose. Too expensive/useless for a varmint round... Especially considered the guns that chamber them. And, IMO, they are not nearly effective enough for a SD round.

[cobb]

.25 auto.... I guess I don't have any basis for that opinion, but it just seems like a caliber that serves no useful purpose. Too expensive/useless for a varmint round... Especially considered the guns that chamber them. And, IMO, they are not nearly effective enough for a SD round.

And of course I am not a fan of that cartridge either, but there are some fine old pistols that are chamber for that.